How to approximate rolls for potions of healing using only d6's?How can I roll a character's age using only...
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How to approximate rolls for potions of healing using only d6's?
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How to approximate rolls for potions of healing using only d6's?
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I want to make tabletop potions of healing out of corked vials (test tubes) filled with dice. Each vial would be labeled and filled based on the potion it represents. For example, a vial for a potion of greater healing would contain four d4's and be labeled with a +4 bonus; when administering such a potion, the player would just dump the vial and total the dice plus the bonus, yielding the correct 4d4+4 result, without having to fiddle with their own dice. The vials are meant to speed up play, act as physical reminders that a player has a potion available, and look super cute (assume that these intentions are inviolable and that this craft project is serious business).
It's hard to find enough d4's to pull off this craft project, and test tubes are normally too small for standard 16mm dice anyway, so I've considered using miniature 12mm d6's instead, which are much easier to come by in blocks of large quantities for cheap. The problem is that d6's are slightly more swingy than d4's, and I don't want to grossly deviate from the math underlying potions.
How can I approximate the rolls for each potion of healing while avoiding swingy results? By swingy results I mean unexpectedly low or high totals or a distribution that violates conventions for how healing works in the game.
The following are the restrictions on a valid solution:
- Only d6 dice can be used. It's a physical constraint of the problem.
- Each vial must contain a constant number of dice to dump and roll for the result, without requiring additional dice that weren't in the vial.
- Basic mental math like addition and subtraction is fine.
- Rerolling below a minimum total or similar rules of thumb are fine if they are simple.
Answers telling me to use the average instead of rolling, to roll with online tools, to find tinier d4's or bigger test tubes, to buy a commercially available set of d4-filled vials, or the like aren't solutions. I promise you this question doesn't suffer from an XY problem. The restrictions are inherent to the nature of the craft project, a very serious and important craft project.
For bonus, corresponding AnyDice formulas would be nice but not vital.
dnd-5e dice statistics anydice
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add a comment |
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I want to make tabletop potions of healing out of corked vials (test tubes) filled with dice. Each vial would be labeled and filled based on the potion it represents. For example, a vial for a potion of greater healing would contain four d4's and be labeled with a +4 bonus; when administering such a potion, the player would just dump the vial and total the dice plus the bonus, yielding the correct 4d4+4 result, without having to fiddle with their own dice. The vials are meant to speed up play, act as physical reminders that a player has a potion available, and look super cute (assume that these intentions are inviolable and that this craft project is serious business).
It's hard to find enough d4's to pull off this craft project, and test tubes are normally too small for standard 16mm dice anyway, so I've considered using miniature 12mm d6's instead, which are much easier to come by in blocks of large quantities for cheap. The problem is that d6's are slightly more swingy than d4's, and I don't want to grossly deviate from the math underlying potions.
How can I approximate the rolls for each potion of healing while avoiding swingy results? By swingy results I mean unexpectedly low or high totals or a distribution that violates conventions for how healing works in the game.
The following are the restrictions on a valid solution:
- Only d6 dice can be used. It's a physical constraint of the problem.
- Each vial must contain a constant number of dice to dump and roll for the result, without requiring additional dice that weren't in the vial.
- Basic mental math like addition and subtraction is fine.
- Rerolling below a minimum total or similar rules of thumb are fine if they are simple.
Answers telling me to use the average instead of rolling, to roll with online tools, to find tinier d4's or bigger test tubes, to buy a commercially available set of d4-filled vials, or the like aren't solutions. I promise you this question doesn't suffer from an XY problem. The restrictions are inherent to the nature of the craft project, a very serious and important craft project.
For bonus, corresponding AnyDice formulas would be nice but not vital.
dnd-5e dice statistics anydice
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Would you be the only user (as a DM? Player?), or are you considering offering / selling it?
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– Bash
11 hours ago
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The craft project would be in use at my table only, for me and my players.
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– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
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You've stated d6 must be used: do they have to be regular d6? i.e some tippex and permanent marker can change the 1 and 6 faces to 3 and 4, making your d6 approximate d4+1 fairly well.
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– frodoskywalker
6 hours ago
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@frodoskywalker In the question as asked, they don't have to be standard d6's. Somebody already answered what you just suggested. In reality, I'm unwilling to create/modify dice, but as far as the question is concerned that strategy is legitimate.
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– Bloodcinder
5 hours ago
add a comment |
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I want to make tabletop potions of healing out of corked vials (test tubes) filled with dice. Each vial would be labeled and filled based on the potion it represents. For example, a vial for a potion of greater healing would contain four d4's and be labeled with a +4 bonus; when administering such a potion, the player would just dump the vial and total the dice plus the bonus, yielding the correct 4d4+4 result, without having to fiddle with their own dice. The vials are meant to speed up play, act as physical reminders that a player has a potion available, and look super cute (assume that these intentions are inviolable and that this craft project is serious business).
It's hard to find enough d4's to pull off this craft project, and test tubes are normally too small for standard 16mm dice anyway, so I've considered using miniature 12mm d6's instead, which are much easier to come by in blocks of large quantities for cheap. The problem is that d6's are slightly more swingy than d4's, and I don't want to grossly deviate from the math underlying potions.
How can I approximate the rolls for each potion of healing while avoiding swingy results? By swingy results I mean unexpectedly low or high totals or a distribution that violates conventions for how healing works in the game.
The following are the restrictions on a valid solution:
- Only d6 dice can be used. It's a physical constraint of the problem.
- Each vial must contain a constant number of dice to dump and roll for the result, without requiring additional dice that weren't in the vial.
- Basic mental math like addition and subtraction is fine.
- Rerolling below a minimum total or similar rules of thumb are fine if they are simple.
Answers telling me to use the average instead of rolling, to roll with online tools, to find tinier d4's or bigger test tubes, to buy a commercially available set of d4-filled vials, or the like aren't solutions. I promise you this question doesn't suffer from an XY problem. The restrictions are inherent to the nature of the craft project, a very serious and important craft project.
For bonus, corresponding AnyDice formulas would be nice but not vital.
dnd-5e dice statistics anydice
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I want to make tabletop potions of healing out of corked vials (test tubes) filled with dice. Each vial would be labeled and filled based on the potion it represents. For example, a vial for a potion of greater healing would contain four d4's and be labeled with a +4 bonus; when administering such a potion, the player would just dump the vial and total the dice plus the bonus, yielding the correct 4d4+4 result, without having to fiddle with their own dice. The vials are meant to speed up play, act as physical reminders that a player has a potion available, and look super cute (assume that these intentions are inviolable and that this craft project is serious business).
It's hard to find enough d4's to pull off this craft project, and test tubes are normally too small for standard 16mm dice anyway, so I've considered using miniature 12mm d6's instead, which are much easier to come by in blocks of large quantities for cheap. The problem is that d6's are slightly more swingy than d4's, and I don't want to grossly deviate from the math underlying potions.
How can I approximate the rolls for each potion of healing while avoiding swingy results? By swingy results I mean unexpectedly low or high totals or a distribution that violates conventions for how healing works in the game.
The following are the restrictions on a valid solution:
- Only d6 dice can be used. It's a physical constraint of the problem.
- Each vial must contain a constant number of dice to dump and roll for the result, without requiring additional dice that weren't in the vial.
- Basic mental math like addition and subtraction is fine.
- Rerolling below a minimum total or similar rules of thumb are fine if they are simple.
Answers telling me to use the average instead of rolling, to roll with online tools, to find tinier d4's or bigger test tubes, to buy a commercially available set of d4-filled vials, or the like aren't solutions. I promise you this question doesn't suffer from an XY problem. The restrictions are inherent to the nature of the craft project, a very serious and important craft project.
For bonus, corresponding AnyDice formulas would be nice but not vital.
dnd-5e dice statistics anydice
dnd-5e dice statistics anydice
edited yesterday
Bloodcinder
asked yesterday
BloodcinderBloodcinder
21.4k374135
21.4k374135
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Would you be the only user (as a DM? Player?), or are you considering offering / selling it?
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– Bash
11 hours ago
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The craft project would be in use at my table only, for me and my players.
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– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
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You've stated d6 must be used: do they have to be regular d6? i.e some tippex and permanent marker can change the 1 and 6 faces to 3 and 4, making your d6 approximate d4+1 fairly well.
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– frodoskywalker
6 hours ago
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@frodoskywalker In the question as asked, they don't have to be standard d6's. Somebody already answered what you just suggested. In reality, I'm unwilling to create/modify dice, but as far as the question is concerned that strategy is legitimate.
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– Bloodcinder
5 hours ago
add a comment |
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Would you be the only user (as a DM? Player?), or are you considering offering / selling it?
$endgroup$
– Bash
11 hours ago
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The craft project would be in use at my table only, for me and my players.
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– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
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You've stated d6 must be used: do they have to be regular d6? i.e some tippex and permanent marker can change the 1 and 6 faces to 3 and 4, making your d6 approximate d4+1 fairly well.
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– frodoskywalker
6 hours ago
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@frodoskywalker In the question as asked, they don't have to be standard d6's. Somebody already answered what you just suggested. In reality, I'm unwilling to create/modify dice, but as far as the question is concerned that strategy is legitimate.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
5 hours ago
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Would you be the only user (as a DM? Player?), or are you considering offering / selling it?
$endgroup$
– Bash
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Would you be the only user (as a DM? Player?), or are you considering offering / selling it?
$endgroup$
– Bash
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
The craft project would be in use at my table only, for me and my players.
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– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
The craft project would be in use at my table only, for me and my players.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
You've stated d6 must be used: do they have to be regular d6? i.e some tippex and permanent marker can change the 1 and 6 faces to 3 and 4, making your d6 approximate d4+1 fairly well.
$endgroup$
– frodoskywalker
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
You've stated d6 must be used: do they have to be regular d6? i.e some tippex and permanent marker can change the 1 and 6 faces to 3 and 4, making your d6 approximate d4+1 fairly well.
$endgroup$
– frodoskywalker
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@frodoskywalker In the question as asked, they don't have to be standard d6's. Somebody already answered what you just suggested. In reality, I'm unwilling to create/modify dice, but as far as the question is concerned that strategy is legitimate.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
5 hours ago
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@frodoskywalker In the question as asked, they don't have to be standard d6's. Somebody already answered what you just suggested. In reality, I'm unwilling to create/modify dice, but as far as the question is concerned that strategy is legitimate.
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– Bloodcinder
5 hours ago
add a comment |
6 Answers
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Let's not overcomplicate it: a simple Nd6 + X formula will work just fine.
Specifically, the effects of Greater (4d4 + 4) and Superior (8d4 + 8) healing potions are quite closely replicated by rolling 2d6 + 7 and 4d6 + 14 respectively. These formulas yield exactly the same average number of hit points healed as the originals (14 for Greater and 28 for Superior potions), and the shapes of the distributions are quite close.
For normal healing potions, naïvely applying the same conversion formula would require us to roll 1d6 + 3.5. Rounding this up to 1d6 + 4 makes these modified potions slightly better (by 0.5 hit points, on average) than the originals, which your players probably won't mind. It also somewhat compensates for the extra "swinginess" (i.e. higher variance) of rolling a single d6 vs. rolling 2d4.
Here's a graph from an AnyDice script demonstrating these distributions:
In particular, rounding the healing amount for the standard potion upwards ensures that the modified potion always have the same or higher chance of healing at least N points as the original, for any N, which is probably desirable. The following graph, plotted from the same script as above, shows the cumulative probabilities of healing at least N points using all these formulas:
BTW, for Supreme healing potions, 5d6 + 28 will give a rather good approximation of the standard 10d4 + 20 formula. As with the standard potion, the average amount healed per potion will be half a hit point higher than with the original formula (45.5 points vs. 45 points), but at these levels that's not really noticeable. The AnyDice script linked above also includes these formulas, but they're commented out by default.
Just for completeness, here are all the original and d6-based formulas in a convenient table:
$$begin{array}{l|rrrr|rrrr}
& text{Original} &&&& text{d6-based} \ hline
text{Potion type} & text{HP gained} & text{Min} & text{Avg} & text{Max} & text{HP gained} & text{Min} & text{Avg} & text{Max} \ hline
text{Normal} & 2{rm d}4+2 & 4 & 7 & 10 & 1{rm d}6+4 & 5 & 7.5 & 10 \ hline
text{Greater} & 4{rm d}4+4 & 8 & 14 & 20 & 2{rm d}6+7 & 9 & 14 & 19 \ hline
text{Superior} & 8{rm d}4+8 & 16 & 28 & 40 & 4{rm d}6+14 & 18 & 28 & 38 \ hline
text{Supreme} & 10{rm d}4+20 & 30 & 45 & 60 & 5{rm d}6+28 & 33 & 45.5 & 58 \ hline
end{array}$$
A nice thing about this method, in my opinion, is that it should work really well with your test tube based physrep idea. All you need to do is put the appropriate number of six-sided dice (1, 2, 4 or 5) in each tube, and add a sticker with the fixed number of points to add (+4, +7, +14 or +28). No fancy math or rerolls or relabeling dice required. Simple!
(Alternatively, if you'd prefer your Greater and Superior healing potions to retain the property of being exactly twice and four times as good as a normal potion, you could adjust the fixed parts of their d6-based formulas up to +8 and +16 respectively. The Supreme potion doesn't follow this pattern even with the original formulas, but adjusting its additive constant up to something like a nice round +30 would probably be reasonable if you choose this approach.)
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This is a very nice solution. I think the biggest "problem", if you can call it that, will be the anti-climax of pouring out a regular healing potion and only having a single d6 come out.
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– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
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@RyanThompson: this can be ameliorated by making it a house rule that the healing player must go "pling pling pling pling!" to represent the +4 HP they always get. (Depending on the kind of players you have, you may need another rule that says making such noises for the other potions is obnoxious and not allowed.) Alternatively, add four small pieces of candy to each tube. (Again, depending on your players, additional guidelines may be needed to prevent abuse...)
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– Jeroen Mostert
5 hours ago
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Another great property of this solution is the low amount of used dice. Cheaper, fits smaller vials, and rolling/adding loads of dice can be cumbersome if made too often (and is best kept for epic damage rolls)
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– Bash
4 hours ago
add a comment |
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Exact solution: Replace each "d4+1" with "d6, reroll 1 and 6"
Each type of healing potion (except the supreme; see below) is some multiple of "d4+1", so a formula that emulates this with a single d6 would be ideal. d4+1 produces a uniform distribution from 2 to 5 inclusive, so a simple rule to emulate this is to roll a d6 and keep re-rolling it until you don't roll a 1 or 6. So, for example, a potion of greater healing, normally 4d4+4, would become 4d6, rerolling all 1s and 6s. Since this rule exactly reproduces the distribution of a d4+1 roll, potions rolled using this rule will behave identically to normal potions rolled using d4s.
As a side bonus, the new formula doesn't involve a modifier, so you don't need to worry about labeling different size potions with different modifiers. This means that you don't necessarily need a different label for each potion size. Just fill it with the appropriate number of dice and make sure people know the rerolling rules.
Note that unlike the other potions, the supreme potion of healing breaks the pattern of having the number of dice equal the modifier. Instead of 10d4+10, it heals for 10d4+20. To apply this rule to the supreme potion, split this into (10d4+10)+10, then replace (10d4+10) with 10d6. This yields 10d6+10 as the new formula for a potion of superior healing.
Quicker but less precise solution: replace each "d4+1" with "d6"
If rerolling some dice, potentially multiple times, is too slow, you could just roll the d6s once and be done with it. It just so happens that "d4+1" and "d6" have the same average roll (3.5), so this will heal for the same amount on average. However, this approach clearly increases the variance, which means that these potions will be more "swingy".
There are a couple of ways to partially mitigate this "swinginess" without using the per-die reroll method described above. First, you could simply say that the potion never heals for less then the normal minimum, regardless of the roll. For example, a greater healing potion would heal a minimum of 8 hit points, even if you roll 4 1s. The minimum amount is easy to calculate: it's twice the number of dice (except for supreme potions, as mentioned above). Alternatively, if the roll is less than the normal minimum, reroll all the potion's dice at once. This is still quicker than selectively rerolling specific dice, since you can scoop them all up at once. Using either of these methods, the rolls will still be a bit more swingy than the standard formula using d4s, but at least you'll never heal for less than what would normally be possible.
You probably don't want to impose the corresponding limit on the high end, since the math is a bit harder, and I doubt your players are going to complain about the rare cases where potions heal too much.
Similar mean & variance: Replace each "d4+1" with "2d6/2"
There is a pretty good way to get a similar mean and variance to the normal potion formula using only d6s, with no rerolls: for each d4+1 in the potion, roll two d6s and take the average. In other words, Nd4+N becomes (2*N)d6/2. This has exactly the same mean and only a slightly higher variance, so the distributions are quite similar. The downside of this solution is obvious, of course: you have to roll and add up twice as many dice.
Note: Since you're dividing by two, you'll need to choose a rounding rule. I recommend rounding up, since otherwise the mean will actually be 0.25 lower than a normal potion, and while we all know that this tiny amount is insignificant in the grand scheme, that probably won't stop your players from complaining about how you "nerfed" their potions. As you might expect, rounding up has the opposite effect, giving a mean that is 0.25 higher.
As with the previous rule, you can still apply the variant that any roll lower than the normal minimum potion roll is treated as that minimum (e.g. 8 for greater healing potions).
AnyDice formulas
Here are AnyDice formulas for all of the above solutions:
Set N to 2 for regular healing potion, 4 for greater, 8 for superior
N: 4
output Nd4+N named "Nd4+N (Normal potion formula)"
output Nd6 named "Nd6, no rerolls"
output [highest of 2*N and Nd6] named "Nd6, minimum 2N"
output ((2*N)d6+1)/2 named "2d6 halved, rounded up"
output [highest of 2*N and ((2*N)d6+1)/2] named "2d6 halved, rounded up, minimum 2N"
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Calculating how many rounds of rerolling the exact solution involves would be helpful, I think.
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– Thanuir
18 hours ago
1
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@Thanuir I considered that, but it seems to be a difficult analysis. The number of rerolls for each die has a geometric distribution with success probability 2/3, so the total number of rounds is the max of N geometric distributions, which is not trivial to compute.
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– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
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@Bash I guess that's mathematically equivalent, but I think it's simpler and easier to remember if you apply the same reroll rules to all potion dice.
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– Ryan Thompson
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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Use d6 with customised distribution
As potions use d4 in pairs, you may modify standard d6 pairs to approximate the same results:
- one dice should have 2 pips removed from the 5 and 6 faces (they become "standard-looking" 3 and 4) - leading to a dice distribution of {1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4} - call it the "good dice", and use green / white ones.
- the other one should have 4 pips removed from the 5 and 6 faces (they become "standard-looking" 1 and 2) - leading to a dice distribution of {1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4} - call it the "bad dice", and use red / black ones.
That way, whenever you roll one of each, you obtain the exact same mean, maximum and minimum - and a very similar variance as 2d4.
Anydice comparison for a standard potion of healing:
output d{1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4}+d{1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4}+2
output 2d4+2
The tricky part is obviously to modify the dice so that they remain legible, and keep a good balance - I'd advise agains Tipp-ex on white dice, and instead look for good markers with colors close to the dice you use.
Alternative distributions may make things even more simple
If adding pips to existing dice does not discourage you, or you find cheap enough 12mm blank or custom dice - you may even consider alternate distributions to avoid the addition of a constant number. The following (non-exhaustive) list offers the same exact results as the previous one :
dice that range from 2 to 5:
output d{2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5}+d{2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5}
"very good dice" vs "very bad dice":
output d{3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6}+d{1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4}
rare extremes :
output d{3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6}+d{1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4}
Only downside : as the supreme potion does not follow the standard pattern, it would either need specific custom dice, or a +10 constant. I'd advise the latter.
If custom dice are not an option - flip them instead
Just define substitution rules on the potion's label, such as :
Black dice : flip the dice if it lands on a 5 or 6
White dice : flip the dice if it lands on a 1 or 2
Now they match the "very good dice" vs "very bad dice" distributions, and can be used for the same results.
- Healing potions get 1 of each
- Greater healing potions get 2 of each
- Superior healing potions get 4 or each
- Supreme healing potions either get 5 of each and a +10 - or you may use 8 good dice and 3 bad dice for approximately the same result.
How does it compare to other answers?
I couldn't resist the urge to aggregate the various methods listed here in a single anydice link (use comments to focus on a single potion when necessary - sorry I couldn't include rerolls!).
This method seems closest to the DMG calculation, but obviously can't beat Limari's proposal efficiency :)
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This is definitely the sort of solution my mind went to first. What do you think about suggesting that OP start with blank dice (like can be found here for approx. $0.20 per) rather than modifying dice that already have pips?
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– nitsua60♦
14 hours ago
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The downvoted answers violate the restrictions of the problem; yours doesn't, so it gets my upvote. Granted, one of my implicit requirements was that I'm using unmodified Chessex 16mm "block of dice" d6's, and I won't be marking them like you suggest, but your solution would work great if I were willing to fill in some of the pips.
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– Bloodcinder
12 hours ago
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I think it's probably worth noting that 2 and 4 pips can always be removed from the 5 and 6 faces of a d6 in such a way as to produce the standard arrangement of pips for the reduced face. For example, removing 2 opposite corner pips from the 5 face leaves 3 pips in a diagonal, which is the standard arrangement for 3. So there's no worry about having unfamiliar pip arrangements on the modified faces.
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– Ryan Thompson
9 hours ago
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I'd rather not revise the question after answers come in. Your answer is good. I'm unlikely to accept it, but somebody else will surely find it useful, and the ideas are sound.
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– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
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@RyanThompson I thought about it, but wanted to keep things short. Does that wording make it clear enough for you ? Thanks for the feedback!
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– Bash
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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This answer includes a frame challenge - Apologies if it not relevant due to your specific craft project :)
Roll paper instead of 6-sided-dice.
After all, a potion's potency is much more influenced by the way it has been prepared, than it is by the way it is drinked. You may roll d4 by yourself before, note the result on a paper, roll it and put it in your vial.
Cons : Players don't get to roll dice. Part of the fun goes away.
Pros : Several, actually :
- Proper Nd4+N formulas are respected
- Surprise remains
- Cheaper than buying dice
- Faster than rolling dice in game
- You are not limited to healing potions
- The content may differ from the label (adulterated healing potion, or even worse - poison?)
- Sometimes, the players won't be able to tell. Did this Superior Healing potion heal only 17 hit points because of a lack of luck, or because it was a Greater Healing Potion?
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This is an excruciatingly correct method for deriving 1d4 from 2d6... and I do mean excruciatingly: Take inspiration from how 2d10 are converted to a 1d100 percentile throw. More specifically, treat one of the d6 throws as a "ones" die, and another of the d6 throws as a "twos" die (as opposed to a "tens" die for a percentile throw.)
But wait, how is a d6 treated as a "ones" die? By convention: 1, 2, or 3 are treated as 0, while 4, 5, or 6 are treated as 1.
But wait, how is a d6 treated as a "twos" die? By convention: 1, 2, or 3 are treated as 0, while 4, 5, or 6 are treated as 2.
Then add the results, which will range from 0 to 3. Add 1 to get a conventional 1d4 or 2 to get your 1d4+1.
But wait, what the heck are you talking about, how does this even work?
Here, see this table, which by casual inspection shows us that the distribution of 1s, 2s, 3s, and 4s is uniform and thus functionally equivalent to 1d4, without needing to re-roll.
begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|}
hline
text{“twos” d6} & text{twos} & text{“ones” d6} & text{ones} & text{1d4} \ hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
1 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
1 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
4 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
4 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
4 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
end{array}
But wait, how do I get this to work for 4d4+4? Use more dice. The remaining logistics are left as an exercise for the querent depending on their materials at hand, but color coding dice pairs and scribing the "twos" dice is one possible solution.
In fact, the excruciating table above is meant to motivate the idea of converting 2d6 into 1d4. It is not actually necessary to pair, e.g., these two green d6s into a single d4, and those two red d6s into another separate d4.
Instead, one can color code the "ones" dice vs the "twos" dice, i.e., black dice for "ones" and and red dice for "twos".
Then a roll of black = (1, 2, 3, 4) and red = (3, 4, 5, 6) converts to:
Black = (0 + 0 + 0 + 1) and red = (0 + 2 + 2 + 2) for a total of 1 + 6 + 4 + 4 = 15 (where the first 4 is necessary to convert to a d4 and the second 4 converts to d4+1)
Finally if you can find appropriately sized blank d6s which you believe are fair, you can skip all this numerical conversion stuff and just paint the appropriate numerals on the faces of the dice.
If these are always and forever going to be used for 1d4+1, just paint the "twos" dice with 1 and 3, and the "ones" dice with 1 and 2. You can just sum those up directly, and save yourself the hassle of adding those 4's every time.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
It's not obvious that this is intended as a solution to my problem rather than a joke. This violates the restriction of simple rules of thumb. The answer would seem more serious if you could explain how a person at the table could easily remember and compute the math.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It is intended as a serious alternative, because it does not require re-rolling (which I find inelegant), does not require addition of coins or other token (which violates the the guidelines), and does not change the probability distribution in some way. It is an exact solution which is not conceptually more difficult than rolling multiple percentile dice at once.
$endgroup$
– Novak
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bloodcinder there is an even simpler but related way, included at the end, inspired by the answer from Trish, if you can find blank dice that fit your vials.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Several ways actually!
modified dice
let's get some blank dice. Now we mark two sides opposite each other as blank for reroll. And then we mark the other 4 sides with 1 to 4, using 1-2-4-3 as the order when spinning the die around the reroll axis. (or, if you want to incorporate the +1 per d4: 2-3-5-4)
- Pro: perfectly models a d4 (or d4+1)
- Con: modified dice & possibly multiple rerolls
adding "coins"
As an alternative to modifying the dice, we can add some "coin tosses". Let's first look at what a coin could do: for each 5 and 6 one coin is tossed. A head modifies one number above 4 by -4
, a tail by -2
, turning the die to be either a 1-2-3-4-1-2 (head) or 1-2-3-4-3-4 (tails). Each distribution happens 50% of the time, so the resulting distribution is exactly as the d4.
- Pro: perfectly models a d4
- Con: the need for additional coin tosses up to the number of dice.
But do we need a coin? No. Not actually. Let's look at the dice. If we color code them, so that each is a different color, we could make a circle system. Like for 5d4 we might write down "black-red-green-umbra-white(-black)". If one shows a 5 or 6, we look if the next die in the row is even (head) or odd (tails). Even and odd results are just like a coin and it's quite common to replace coin tosses with this.
Example: We roll 5d4 using the above color code and get b5 r2 g3 u6 w5
. With even being -4
and odd -2
that gets turned into b1 r2 g3 u2 w3
. That's 11.
- pro: perfectly models a d4, no modified items or extra things needed
- con: the need to mark down the color-code along the dice tube.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
+1 for inspiration of blank dice.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Let's not overcomplicate it: a simple Nd6 + X formula will work just fine.
Specifically, the effects of Greater (4d4 + 4) and Superior (8d4 + 8) healing potions are quite closely replicated by rolling 2d6 + 7 and 4d6 + 14 respectively. These formulas yield exactly the same average number of hit points healed as the originals (14 for Greater and 28 for Superior potions), and the shapes of the distributions are quite close.
For normal healing potions, naïvely applying the same conversion formula would require us to roll 1d6 + 3.5. Rounding this up to 1d6 + 4 makes these modified potions slightly better (by 0.5 hit points, on average) than the originals, which your players probably won't mind. It also somewhat compensates for the extra "swinginess" (i.e. higher variance) of rolling a single d6 vs. rolling 2d4.
Here's a graph from an AnyDice script demonstrating these distributions:
In particular, rounding the healing amount for the standard potion upwards ensures that the modified potion always have the same or higher chance of healing at least N points as the original, for any N, which is probably desirable. The following graph, plotted from the same script as above, shows the cumulative probabilities of healing at least N points using all these formulas:
BTW, for Supreme healing potions, 5d6 + 28 will give a rather good approximation of the standard 10d4 + 20 formula. As with the standard potion, the average amount healed per potion will be half a hit point higher than with the original formula (45.5 points vs. 45 points), but at these levels that's not really noticeable. The AnyDice script linked above also includes these formulas, but they're commented out by default.
Just for completeness, here are all the original and d6-based formulas in a convenient table:
$$begin{array}{l|rrrr|rrrr}
& text{Original} &&&& text{d6-based} \ hline
text{Potion type} & text{HP gained} & text{Min} & text{Avg} & text{Max} & text{HP gained} & text{Min} & text{Avg} & text{Max} \ hline
text{Normal} & 2{rm d}4+2 & 4 & 7 & 10 & 1{rm d}6+4 & 5 & 7.5 & 10 \ hline
text{Greater} & 4{rm d}4+4 & 8 & 14 & 20 & 2{rm d}6+7 & 9 & 14 & 19 \ hline
text{Superior} & 8{rm d}4+8 & 16 & 28 & 40 & 4{rm d}6+14 & 18 & 28 & 38 \ hline
text{Supreme} & 10{rm d}4+20 & 30 & 45 & 60 & 5{rm d}6+28 & 33 & 45.5 & 58 \ hline
end{array}$$
A nice thing about this method, in my opinion, is that it should work really well with your test tube based physrep idea. All you need to do is put the appropriate number of six-sided dice (1, 2, 4 or 5) in each tube, and add a sticker with the fixed number of points to add (+4, +7, +14 or +28). No fancy math or rerolls or relabeling dice required. Simple!
(Alternatively, if you'd prefer your Greater and Superior healing potions to retain the property of being exactly twice and four times as good as a normal potion, you could adjust the fixed parts of their d6-based formulas up to +8 and +16 respectively. The Supreme potion doesn't follow this pattern even with the original formulas, but adjusting its additive constant up to something like a nice round +30 would probably be reasonable if you choose this approach.)
$endgroup$
5
$begingroup$
This is a very nice solution. I think the biggest "problem", if you can call it that, will be the anti-climax of pouring out a regular healing potion and only having a single d6 come out.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson: this can be ameliorated by making it a house rule that the healing player must go "pling pling pling pling!" to represent the +4 HP they always get. (Depending on the kind of players you have, you may need another rule that says making such noises for the other potions is obnoxious and not allowed.) Alternatively, add four small pieces of candy to each tube. (Again, depending on your players, additional guidelines may be needed to prevent abuse...)
$endgroup$
– Jeroen Mostert
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Another great property of this solution is the low amount of used dice. Cheaper, fits smaller vials, and rolling/adding loads of dice can be cumbersome if made too often (and is best kept for epic damage rolls)
$endgroup$
– Bash
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's not overcomplicate it: a simple Nd6 + X formula will work just fine.
Specifically, the effects of Greater (4d4 + 4) and Superior (8d4 + 8) healing potions are quite closely replicated by rolling 2d6 + 7 and 4d6 + 14 respectively. These formulas yield exactly the same average number of hit points healed as the originals (14 for Greater and 28 for Superior potions), and the shapes of the distributions are quite close.
For normal healing potions, naïvely applying the same conversion formula would require us to roll 1d6 + 3.5. Rounding this up to 1d6 + 4 makes these modified potions slightly better (by 0.5 hit points, on average) than the originals, which your players probably won't mind. It also somewhat compensates for the extra "swinginess" (i.e. higher variance) of rolling a single d6 vs. rolling 2d4.
Here's a graph from an AnyDice script demonstrating these distributions:
In particular, rounding the healing amount for the standard potion upwards ensures that the modified potion always have the same or higher chance of healing at least N points as the original, for any N, which is probably desirable. The following graph, plotted from the same script as above, shows the cumulative probabilities of healing at least N points using all these formulas:
BTW, for Supreme healing potions, 5d6 + 28 will give a rather good approximation of the standard 10d4 + 20 formula. As with the standard potion, the average amount healed per potion will be half a hit point higher than with the original formula (45.5 points vs. 45 points), but at these levels that's not really noticeable. The AnyDice script linked above also includes these formulas, but they're commented out by default.
Just for completeness, here are all the original and d6-based formulas in a convenient table:
$$begin{array}{l|rrrr|rrrr}
& text{Original} &&&& text{d6-based} \ hline
text{Potion type} & text{HP gained} & text{Min} & text{Avg} & text{Max} & text{HP gained} & text{Min} & text{Avg} & text{Max} \ hline
text{Normal} & 2{rm d}4+2 & 4 & 7 & 10 & 1{rm d}6+4 & 5 & 7.5 & 10 \ hline
text{Greater} & 4{rm d}4+4 & 8 & 14 & 20 & 2{rm d}6+7 & 9 & 14 & 19 \ hline
text{Superior} & 8{rm d}4+8 & 16 & 28 & 40 & 4{rm d}6+14 & 18 & 28 & 38 \ hline
text{Supreme} & 10{rm d}4+20 & 30 & 45 & 60 & 5{rm d}6+28 & 33 & 45.5 & 58 \ hline
end{array}$$
A nice thing about this method, in my opinion, is that it should work really well with your test tube based physrep idea. All you need to do is put the appropriate number of six-sided dice (1, 2, 4 or 5) in each tube, and add a sticker with the fixed number of points to add (+4, +7, +14 or +28). No fancy math or rerolls or relabeling dice required. Simple!
(Alternatively, if you'd prefer your Greater and Superior healing potions to retain the property of being exactly twice and four times as good as a normal potion, you could adjust the fixed parts of their d6-based formulas up to +8 and +16 respectively. The Supreme potion doesn't follow this pattern even with the original formulas, but adjusting its additive constant up to something like a nice round +30 would probably be reasonable if you choose this approach.)
$endgroup$
5
$begingroup$
This is a very nice solution. I think the biggest "problem", if you can call it that, will be the anti-climax of pouring out a regular healing potion and only having a single d6 come out.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson: this can be ameliorated by making it a house rule that the healing player must go "pling pling pling pling!" to represent the +4 HP they always get. (Depending on the kind of players you have, you may need another rule that says making such noises for the other potions is obnoxious and not allowed.) Alternatively, add four small pieces of candy to each tube. (Again, depending on your players, additional guidelines may be needed to prevent abuse...)
$endgroup$
– Jeroen Mostert
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Another great property of this solution is the low amount of used dice. Cheaper, fits smaller vials, and rolling/adding loads of dice can be cumbersome if made too often (and is best kept for epic damage rolls)
$endgroup$
– Bash
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's not overcomplicate it: a simple Nd6 + X formula will work just fine.
Specifically, the effects of Greater (4d4 + 4) and Superior (8d4 + 8) healing potions are quite closely replicated by rolling 2d6 + 7 and 4d6 + 14 respectively. These formulas yield exactly the same average number of hit points healed as the originals (14 for Greater and 28 for Superior potions), and the shapes of the distributions are quite close.
For normal healing potions, naïvely applying the same conversion formula would require us to roll 1d6 + 3.5. Rounding this up to 1d6 + 4 makes these modified potions slightly better (by 0.5 hit points, on average) than the originals, which your players probably won't mind. It also somewhat compensates for the extra "swinginess" (i.e. higher variance) of rolling a single d6 vs. rolling 2d4.
Here's a graph from an AnyDice script demonstrating these distributions:
In particular, rounding the healing amount for the standard potion upwards ensures that the modified potion always have the same or higher chance of healing at least N points as the original, for any N, which is probably desirable. The following graph, plotted from the same script as above, shows the cumulative probabilities of healing at least N points using all these formulas:
BTW, for Supreme healing potions, 5d6 + 28 will give a rather good approximation of the standard 10d4 + 20 formula. As with the standard potion, the average amount healed per potion will be half a hit point higher than with the original formula (45.5 points vs. 45 points), but at these levels that's not really noticeable. The AnyDice script linked above also includes these formulas, but they're commented out by default.
Just for completeness, here are all the original and d6-based formulas in a convenient table:
$$begin{array}{l|rrrr|rrrr}
& text{Original} &&&& text{d6-based} \ hline
text{Potion type} & text{HP gained} & text{Min} & text{Avg} & text{Max} & text{HP gained} & text{Min} & text{Avg} & text{Max} \ hline
text{Normal} & 2{rm d}4+2 & 4 & 7 & 10 & 1{rm d}6+4 & 5 & 7.5 & 10 \ hline
text{Greater} & 4{rm d}4+4 & 8 & 14 & 20 & 2{rm d}6+7 & 9 & 14 & 19 \ hline
text{Superior} & 8{rm d}4+8 & 16 & 28 & 40 & 4{rm d}6+14 & 18 & 28 & 38 \ hline
text{Supreme} & 10{rm d}4+20 & 30 & 45 & 60 & 5{rm d}6+28 & 33 & 45.5 & 58 \ hline
end{array}$$
A nice thing about this method, in my opinion, is that it should work really well with your test tube based physrep idea. All you need to do is put the appropriate number of six-sided dice (1, 2, 4 or 5) in each tube, and add a sticker with the fixed number of points to add (+4, +7, +14 or +28). No fancy math or rerolls or relabeling dice required. Simple!
(Alternatively, if you'd prefer your Greater and Superior healing potions to retain the property of being exactly twice and four times as good as a normal potion, you could adjust the fixed parts of their d6-based formulas up to +8 and +16 respectively. The Supreme potion doesn't follow this pattern even with the original formulas, but adjusting its additive constant up to something like a nice round +30 would probably be reasonable if you choose this approach.)
$endgroup$
Let's not overcomplicate it: a simple Nd6 + X formula will work just fine.
Specifically, the effects of Greater (4d4 + 4) and Superior (8d4 + 8) healing potions are quite closely replicated by rolling 2d6 + 7 and 4d6 + 14 respectively. These formulas yield exactly the same average number of hit points healed as the originals (14 for Greater and 28 for Superior potions), and the shapes of the distributions are quite close.
For normal healing potions, naïvely applying the same conversion formula would require us to roll 1d6 + 3.5. Rounding this up to 1d6 + 4 makes these modified potions slightly better (by 0.5 hit points, on average) than the originals, which your players probably won't mind. It also somewhat compensates for the extra "swinginess" (i.e. higher variance) of rolling a single d6 vs. rolling 2d4.
Here's a graph from an AnyDice script demonstrating these distributions:
In particular, rounding the healing amount for the standard potion upwards ensures that the modified potion always have the same or higher chance of healing at least N points as the original, for any N, which is probably desirable. The following graph, plotted from the same script as above, shows the cumulative probabilities of healing at least N points using all these formulas:
BTW, for Supreme healing potions, 5d6 + 28 will give a rather good approximation of the standard 10d4 + 20 formula. As with the standard potion, the average amount healed per potion will be half a hit point higher than with the original formula (45.5 points vs. 45 points), but at these levels that's not really noticeable. The AnyDice script linked above also includes these formulas, but they're commented out by default.
Just for completeness, here are all the original and d6-based formulas in a convenient table:
$$begin{array}{l|rrrr|rrrr}
& text{Original} &&&& text{d6-based} \ hline
text{Potion type} & text{HP gained} & text{Min} & text{Avg} & text{Max} & text{HP gained} & text{Min} & text{Avg} & text{Max} \ hline
text{Normal} & 2{rm d}4+2 & 4 & 7 & 10 & 1{rm d}6+4 & 5 & 7.5 & 10 \ hline
text{Greater} & 4{rm d}4+4 & 8 & 14 & 20 & 2{rm d}6+7 & 9 & 14 & 19 \ hline
text{Superior} & 8{rm d}4+8 & 16 & 28 & 40 & 4{rm d}6+14 & 18 & 28 & 38 \ hline
text{Supreme} & 10{rm d}4+20 & 30 & 45 & 60 & 5{rm d}6+28 & 33 & 45.5 & 58 \ hline
end{array}$$
A nice thing about this method, in my opinion, is that it should work really well with your test tube based physrep idea. All you need to do is put the appropriate number of six-sided dice (1, 2, 4 or 5) in each tube, and add a sticker with the fixed number of points to add (+4, +7, +14 or +28). No fancy math or rerolls or relabeling dice required. Simple!
(Alternatively, if you'd prefer your Greater and Superior healing potions to retain the property of being exactly twice and four times as good as a normal potion, you could adjust the fixed parts of their d6-based formulas up to +8 and +16 respectively. The Supreme potion doesn't follow this pattern even with the original formulas, but adjusting its additive constant up to something like a nice round +30 would probably be reasonable if you choose this approach.)
edited 11 hours ago
answered 11 hours ago
Ilmari KaronenIlmari Karonen
10.5k23247
10.5k23247
5
$begingroup$
This is a very nice solution. I think the biggest "problem", if you can call it that, will be the anti-climax of pouring out a regular healing potion and only having a single d6 come out.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson: this can be ameliorated by making it a house rule that the healing player must go "pling pling pling pling!" to represent the +4 HP they always get. (Depending on the kind of players you have, you may need another rule that says making such noises for the other potions is obnoxious and not allowed.) Alternatively, add four small pieces of candy to each tube. (Again, depending on your players, additional guidelines may be needed to prevent abuse...)
$endgroup$
– Jeroen Mostert
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Another great property of this solution is the low amount of used dice. Cheaper, fits smaller vials, and rolling/adding loads of dice can be cumbersome if made too often (and is best kept for epic damage rolls)
$endgroup$
– Bash
4 hours ago
add a comment |
5
$begingroup$
This is a very nice solution. I think the biggest "problem", if you can call it that, will be the anti-climax of pouring out a regular healing potion and only having a single d6 come out.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson: this can be ameliorated by making it a house rule that the healing player must go "pling pling pling pling!" to represent the +4 HP they always get. (Depending on the kind of players you have, you may need another rule that says making such noises for the other potions is obnoxious and not allowed.) Alternatively, add four small pieces of candy to each tube. (Again, depending on your players, additional guidelines may be needed to prevent abuse...)
$endgroup$
– Jeroen Mostert
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Another great property of this solution is the low amount of used dice. Cheaper, fits smaller vials, and rolling/adding loads of dice can be cumbersome if made too often (and is best kept for epic damage rolls)
$endgroup$
– Bash
4 hours ago
5
5
$begingroup$
This is a very nice solution. I think the biggest "problem", if you can call it that, will be the anti-climax of pouring out a regular healing potion and only having a single d6 come out.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is a very nice solution. I think the biggest "problem", if you can call it that, will be the anti-climax of pouring out a regular healing potion and only having a single d6 come out.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson: this can be ameliorated by making it a house rule that the healing player must go "pling pling pling pling!" to represent the +4 HP they always get. (Depending on the kind of players you have, you may need another rule that says making such noises for the other potions is obnoxious and not allowed.) Alternatively, add four small pieces of candy to each tube. (Again, depending on your players, additional guidelines may be needed to prevent abuse...)
$endgroup$
– Jeroen Mostert
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson: this can be ameliorated by making it a house rule that the healing player must go "pling pling pling pling!" to represent the +4 HP they always get. (Depending on the kind of players you have, you may need another rule that says making such noises for the other potions is obnoxious and not allowed.) Alternatively, add four small pieces of candy to each tube. (Again, depending on your players, additional guidelines may be needed to prevent abuse...)
$endgroup$
– Jeroen Mostert
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Another great property of this solution is the low amount of used dice. Cheaper, fits smaller vials, and rolling/adding loads of dice can be cumbersome if made too often (and is best kept for epic damage rolls)
$endgroup$
– Bash
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Another great property of this solution is the low amount of used dice. Cheaper, fits smaller vials, and rolling/adding loads of dice can be cumbersome if made too often (and is best kept for epic damage rolls)
$endgroup$
– Bash
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Exact solution: Replace each "d4+1" with "d6, reroll 1 and 6"
Each type of healing potion (except the supreme; see below) is some multiple of "d4+1", so a formula that emulates this with a single d6 would be ideal. d4+1 produces a uniform distribution from 2 to 5 inclusive, so a simple rule to emulate this is to roll a d6 and keep re-rolling it until you don't roll a 1 or 6. So, for example, a potion of greater healing, normally 4d4+4, would become 4d6, rerolling all 1s and 6s. Since this rule exactly reproduces the distribution of a d4+1 roll, potions rolled using this rule will behave identically to normal potions rolled using d4s.
As a side bonus, the new formula doesn't involve a modifier, so you don't need to worry about labeling different size potions with different modifiers. This means that you don't necessarily need a different label for each potion size. Just fill it with the appropriate number of dice and make sure people know the rerolling rules.
Note that unlike the other potions, the supreme potion of healing breaks the pattern of having the number of dice equal the modifier. Instead of 10d4+10, it heals for 10d4+20. To apply this rule to the supreme potion, split this into (10d4+10)+10, then replace (10d4+10) with 10d6. This yields 10d6+10 as the new formula for a potion of superior healing.
Quicker but less precise solution: replace each "d4+1" with "d6"
If rerolling some dice, potentially multiple times, is too slow, you could just roll the d6s once and be done with it. It just so happens that "d4+1" and "d6" have the same average roll (3.5), so this will heal for the same amount on average. However, this approach clearly increases the variance, which means that these potions will be more "swingy".
There are a couple of ways to partially mitigate this "swinginess" without using the per-die reroll method described above. First, you could simply say that the potion never heals for less then the normal minimum, regardless of the roll. For example, a greater healing potion would heal a minimum of 8 hit points, even if you roll 4 1s. The minimum amount is easy to calculate: it's twice the number of dice (except for supreme potions, as mentioned above). Alternatively, if the roll is less than the normal minimum, reroll all the potion's dice at once. This is still quicker than selectively rerolling specific dice, since you can scoop them all up at once. Using either of these methods, the rolls will still be a bit more swingy than the standard formula using d4s, but at least you'll never heal for less than what would normally be possible.
You probably don't want to impose the corresponding limit on the high end, since the math is a bit harder, and I doubt your players are going to complain about the rare cases where potions heal too much.
Similar mean & variance: Replace each "d4+1" with "2d6/2"
There is a pretty good way to get a similar mean and variance to the normal potion formula using only d6s, with no rerolls: for each d4+1 in the potion, roll two d6s and take the average. In other words, Nd4+N becomes (2*N)d6/2. This has exactly the same mean and only a slightly higher variance, so the distributions are quite similar. The downside of this solution is obvious, of course: you have to roll and add up twice as many dice.
Note: Since you're dividing by two, you'll need to choose a rounding rule. I recommend rounding up, since otherwise the mean will actually be 0.25 lower than a normal potion, and while we all know that this tiny amount is insignificant in the grand scheme, that probably won't stop your players from complaining about how you "nerfed" their potions. As you might expect, rounding up has the opposite effect, giving a mean that is 0.25 higher.
As with the previous rule, you can still apply the variant that any roll lower than the normal minimum potion roll is treated as that minimum (e.g. 8 for greater healing potions).
AnyDice formulas
Here are AnyDice formulas for all of the above solutions:
Set N to 2 for regular healing potion, 4 for greater, 8 for superior
N: 4
output Nd4+N named "Nd4+N (Normal potion formula)"
output Nd6 named "Nd6, no rerolls"
output [highest of 2*N and Nd6] named "Nd6, minimum 2N"
output ((2*N)d6+1)/2 named "2d6 halved, rounded up"
output [highest of 2*N and ((2*N)d6+1)/2] named "2d6 halved, rounded up, minimum 2N"
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Calculating how many rounds of rerolling the exact solution involves would be helpful, I think.
$endgroup$
– Thanuir
18 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Thanuir I considered that, but it seems to be a difficult analysis. The number of rerolls for each die has a geometric distribution with success probability 2/3, so the total number of rounds is the max of N geometric distributions, which is not trivial to compute.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bash I guess that's mathematically equivalent, but I think it's simpler and easier to remember if you apply the same reroll rules to all potion dice.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Exact solution: Replace each "d4+1" with "d6, reroll 1 and 6"
Each type of healing potion (except the supreme; see below) is some multiple of "d4+1", so a formula that emulates this with a single d6 would be ideal. d4+1 produces a uniform distribution from 2 to 5 inclusive, so a simple rule to emulate this is to roll a d6 and keep re-rolling it until you don't roll a 1 or 6. So, for example, a potion of greater healing, normally 4d4+4, would become 4d6, rerolling all 1s and 6s. Since this rule exactly reproduces the distribution of a d4+1 roll, potions rolled using this rule will behave identically to normal potions rolled using d4s.
As a side bonus, the new formula doesn't involve a modifier, so you don't need to worry about labeling different size potions with different modifiers. This means that you don't necessarily need a different label for each potion size. Just fill it with the appropriate number of dice and make sure people know the rerolling rules.
Note that unlike the other potions, the supreme potion of healing breaks the pattern of having the number of dice equal the modifier. Instead of 10d4+10, it heals for 10d4+20. To apply this rule to the supreme potion, split this into (10d4+10)+10, then replace (10d4+10) with 10d6. This yields 10d6+10 as the new formula for a potion of superior healing.
Quicker but less precise solution: replace each "d4+1" with "d6"
If rerolling some dice, potentially multiple times, is too slow, you could just roll the d6s once and be done with it. It just so happens that "d4+1" and "d6" have the same average roll (3.5), so this will heal for the same amount on average. However, this approach clearly increases the variance, which means that these potions will be more "swingy".
There are a couple of ways to partially mitigate this "swinginess" without using the per-die reroll method described above. First, you could simply say that the potion never heals for less then the normal minimum, regardless of the roll. For example, a greater healing potion would heal a minimum of 8 hit points, even if you roll 4 1s. The minimum amount is easy to calculate: it's twice the number of dice (except for supreme potions, as mentioned above). Alternatively, if the roll is less than the normal minimum, reroll all the potion's dice at once. This is still quicker than selectively rerolling specific dice, since you can scoop them all up at once. Using either of these methods, the rolls will still be a bit more swingy than the standard formula using d4s, but at least you'll never heal for less than what would normally be possible.
You probably don't want to impose the corresponding limit on the high end, since the math is a bit harder, and I doubt your players are going to complain about the rare cases where potions heal too much.
Similar mean & variance: Replace each "d4+1" with "2d6/2"
There is a pretty good way to get a similar mean and variance to the normal potion formula using only d6s, with no rerolls: for each d4+1 in the potion, roll two d6s and take the average. In other words, Nd4+N becomes (2*N)d6/2. This has exactly the same mean and only a slightly higher variance, so the distributions are quite similar. The downside of this solution is obvious, of course: you have to roll and add up twice as many dice.
Note: Since you're dividing by two, you'll need to choose a rounding rule. I recommend rounding up, since otherwise the mean will actually be 0.25 lower than a normal potion, and while we all know that this tiny amount is insignificant in the grand scheme, that probably won't stop your players from complaining about how you "nerfed" their potions. As you might expect, rounding up has the opposite effect, giving a mean that is 0.25 higher.
As with the previous rule, you can still apply the variant that any roll lower than the normal minimum potion roll is treated as that minimum (e.g. 8 for greater healing potions).
AnyDice formulas
Here are AnyDice formulas for all of the above solutions:
Set N to 2 for regular healing potion, 4 for greater, 8 for superior
N: 4
output Nd4+N named "Nd4+N (Normal potion formula)"
output Nd6 named "Nd6, no rerolls"
output [highest of 2*N and Nd6] named "Nd6, minimum 2N"
output ((2*N)d6+1)/2 named "2d6 halved, rounded up"
output [highest of 2*N and ((2*N)d6+1)/2] named "2d6 halved, rounded up, minimum 2N"
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Calculating how many rounds of rerolling the exact solution involves would be helpful, I think.
$endgroup$
– Thanuir
18 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Thanuir I considered that, but it seems to be a difficult analysis. The number of rerolls for each die has a geometric distribution with success probability 2/3, so the total number of rounds is the max of N geometric distributions, which is not trivial to compute.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bash I guess that's mathematically equivalent, but I think it's simpler and easier to remember if you apply the same reroll rules to all potion dice.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Exact solution: Replace each "d4+1" with "d6, reroll 1 and 6"
Each type of healing potion (except the supreme; see below) is some multiple of "d4+1", so a formula that emulates this with a single d6 would be ideal. d4+1 produces a uniform distribution from 2 to 5 inclusive, so a simple rule to emulate this is to roll a d6 and keep re-rolling it until you don't roll a 1 or 6. So, for example, a potion of greater healing, normally 4d4+4, would become 4d6, rerolling all 1s and 6s. Since this rule exactly reproduces the distribution of a d4+1 roll, potions rolled using this rule will behave identically to normal potions rolled using d4s.
As a side bonus, the new formula doesn't involve a modifier, so you don't need to worry about labeling different size potions with different modifiers. This means that you don't necessarily need a different label for each potion size. Just fill it with the appropriate number of dice and make sure people know the rerolling rules.
Note that unlike the other potions, the supreme potion of healing breaks the pattern of having the number of dice equal the modifier. Instead of 10d4+10, it heals for 10d4+20. To apply this rule to the supreme potion, split this into (10d4+10)+10, then replace (10d4+10) with 10d6. This yields 10d6+10 as the new formula for a potion of superior healing.
Quicker but less precise solution: replace each "d4+1" with "d6"
If rerolling some dice, potentially multiple times, is too slow, you could just roll the d6s once and be done with it. It just so happens that "d4+1" and "d6" have the same average roll (3.5), so this will heal for the same amount on average. However, this approach clearly increases the variance, which means that these potions will be more "swingy".
There are a couple of ways to partially mitigate this "swinginess" without using the per-die reroll method described above. First, you could simply say that the potion never heals for less then the normal minimum, regardless of the roll. For example, a greater healing potion would heal a minimum of 8 hit points, even if you roll 4 1s. The minimum amount is easy to calculate: it's twice the number of dice (except for supreme potions, as mentioned above). Alternatively, if the roll is less than the normal minimum, reroll all the potion's dice at once. This is still quicker than selectively rerolling specific dice, since you can scoop them all up at once. Using either of these methods, the rolls will still be a bit more swingy than the standard formula using d4s, but at least you'll never heal for less than what would normally be possible.
You probably don't want to impose the corresponding limit on the high end, since the math is a bit harder, and I doubt your players are going to complain about the rare cases where potions heal too much.
Similar mean & variance: Replace each "d4+1" with "2d6/2"
There is a pretty good way to get a similar mean and variance to the normal potion formula using only d6s, with no rerolls: for each d4+1 in the potion, roll two d6s and take the average. In other words, Nd4+N becomes (2*N)d6/2. This has exactly the same mean and only a slightly higher variance, so the distributions are quite similar. The downside of this solution is obvious, of course: you have to roll and add up twice as many dice.
Note: Since you're dividing by two, you'll need to choose a rounding rule. I recommend rounding up, since otherwise the mean will actually be 0.25 lower than a normal potion, and while we all know that this tiny amount is insignificant in the grand scheme, that probably won't stop your players from complaining about how you "nerfed" their potions. As you might expect, rounding up has the opposite effect, giving a mean that is 0.25 higher.
As with the previous rule, you can still apply the variant that any roll lower than the normal minimum potion roll is treated as that minimum (e.g. 8 for greater healing potions).
AnyDice formulas
Here are AnyDice formulas for all of the above solutions:
Set N to 2 for regular healing potion, 4 for greater, 8 for superior
N: 4
output Nd4+N named "Nd4+N (Normal potion formula)"
output Nd6 named "Nd6, no rerolls"
output [highest of 2*N and Nd6] named "Nd6, minimum 2N"
output ((2*N)d6+1)/2 named "2d6 halved, rounded up"
output [highest of 2*N and ((2*N)d6+1)/2] named "2d6 halved, rounded up, minimum 2N"
$endgroup$
Exact solution: Replace each "d4+1" with "d6, reroll 1 and 6"
Each type of healing potion (except the supreme; see below) is some multiple of "d4+1", so a formula that emulates this with a single d6 would be ideal. d4+1 produces a uniform distribution from 2 to 5 inclusive, so a simple rule to emulate this is to roll a d6 and keep re-rolling it until you don't roll a 1 or 6. So, for example, a potion of greater healing, normally 4d4+4, would become 4d6, rerolling all 1s and 6s. Since this rule exactly reproduces the distribution of a d4+1 roll, potions rolled using this rule will behave identically to normal potions rolled using d4s.
As a side bonus, the new formula doesn't involve a modifier, so you don't need to worry about labeling different size potions with different modifiers. This means that you don't necessarily need a different label for each potion size. Just fill it with the appropriate number of dice and make sure people know the rerolling rules.
Note that unlike the other potions, the supreme potion of healing breaks the pattern of having the number of dice equal the modifier. Instead of 10d4+10, it heals for 10d4+20. To apply this rule to the supreme potion, split this into (10d4+10)+10, then replace (10d4+10) with 10d6. This yields 10d6+10 as the new formula for a potion of superior healing.
Quicker but less precise solution: replace each "d4+1" with "d6"
If rerolling some dice, potentially multiple times, is too slow, you could just roll the d6s once and be done with it. It just so happens that "d4+1" and "d6" have the same average roll (3.5), so this will heal for the same amount on average. However, this approach clearly increases the variance, which means that these potions will be more "swingy".
There are a couple of ways to partially mitigate this "swinginess" without using the per-die reroll method described above. First, you could simply say that the potion never heals for less then the normal minimum, regardless of the roll. For example, a greater healing potion would heal a minimum of 8 hit points, even if you roll 4 1s. The minimum amount is easy to calculate: it's twice the number of dice (except for supreme potions, as mentioned above). Alternatively, if the roll is less than the normal minimum, reroll all the potion's dice at once. This is still quicker than selectively rerolling specific dice, since you can scoop them all up at once. Using either of these methods, the rolls will still be a bit more swingy than the standard formula using d4s, but at least you'll never heal for less than what would normally be possible.
You probably don't want to impose the corresponding limit on the high end, since the math is a bit harder, and I doubt your players are going to complain about the rare cases where potions heal too much.
Similar mean & variance: Replace each "d4+1" with "2d6/2"
There is a pretty good way to get a similar mean and variance to the normal potion formula using only d6s, with no rerolls: for each d4+1 in the potion, roll two d6s and take the average. In other words, Nd4+N becomes (2*N)d6/2. This has exactly the same mean and only a slightly higher variance, so the distributions are quite similar. The downside of this solution is obvious, of course: you have to roll and add up twice as many dice.
Note: Since you're dividing by two, you'll need to choose a rounding rule. I recommend rounding up, since otherwise the mean will actually be 0.25 lower than a normal potion, and while we all know that this tiny amount is insignificant in the grand scheme, that probably won't stop your players from complaining about how you "nerfed" their potions. As you might expect, rounding up has the opposite effect, giving a mean that is 0.25 higher.
As with the previous rule, you can still apply the variant that any roll lower than the normal minimum potion roll is treated as that minimum (e.g. 8 for greater healing potions).
AnyDice formulas
Here are AnyDice formulas for all of the above solutions:
Set N to 2 for regular healing potion, 4 for greater, 8 for superior
N: 4
output Nd4+N named "Nd4+N (Normal potion formula)"
output Nd6 named "Nd6, no rerolls"
output [highest of 2*N and Nd6] named "Nd6, minimum 2N"
output ((2*N)d6+1)/2 named "2d6 halved, rounded up"
output [highest of 2*N and ((2*N)d6+1)/2] named "2d6 halved, rounded up, minimum 2N"
edited 10 hours ago
answered yesterday
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
9,84923076
9,84923076
1
$begingroup$
Calculating how many rounds of rerolling the exact solution involves would be helpful, I think.
$endgroup$
– Thanuir
18 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Thanuir I considered that, but it seems to be a difficult analysis. The number of rerolls for each die has a geometric distribution with success probability 2/3, so the total number of rounds is the max of N geometric distributions, which is not trivial to compute.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bash I guess that's mathematically equivalent, but I think it's simpler and easier to remember if you apply the same reroll rules to all potion dice.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
7 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Calculating how many rounds of rerolling the exact solution involves would be helpful, I think.
$endgroup$
– Thanuir
18 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Thanuir I considered that, but it seems to be a difficult analysis. The number of rerolls for each die has a geometric distribution with success probability 2/3, so the total number of rounds is the max of N geometric distributions, which is not trivial to compute.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bash I guess that's mathematically equivalent, but I think it's simpler and easier to remember if you apply the same reroll rules to all potion dice.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Calculating how many rounds of rerolling the exact solution involves would be helpful, I think.
$endgroup$
– Thanuir
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
Calculating how many rounds of rerolling the exact solution involves would be helpful, I think.
$endgroup$
– Thanuir
18 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Thanuir I considered that, but it seems to be a difficult analysis. The number of rerolls for each die has a geometric distribution with success probability 2/3, so the total number of rounds is the max of N geometric distributions, which is not trivial to compute.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Thanuir I considered that, but it seems to be a difficult analysis. The number of rerolls for each die has a geometric distribution with success probability 2/3, so the total number of rounds is the max of N geometric distributions, which is not trivial to compute.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bash I guess that's mathematically equivalent, but I think it's simpler and easier to remember if you apply the same reroll rules to all potion dice.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bash I guess that's mathematically equivalent, but I think it's simpler and easier to remember if you apply the same reroll rules to all potion dice.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use d6 with customised distribution
As potions use d4 in pairs, you may modify standard d6 pairs to approximate the same results:
- one dice should have 2 pips removed from the 5 and 6 faces (they become "standard-looking" 3 and 4) - leading to a dice distribution of {1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4} - call it the "good dice", and use green / white ones.
- the other one should have 4 pips removed from the 5 and 6 faces (they become "standard-looking" 1 and 2) - leading to a dice distribution of {1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4} - call it the "bad dice", and use red / black ones.
That way, whenever you roll one of each, you obtain the exact same mean, maximum and minimum - and a very similar variance as 2d4.
Anydice comparison for a standard potion of healing:
output d{1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4}+d{1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4}+2
output 2d4+2
The tricky part is obviously to modify the dice so that they remain legible, and keep a good balance - I'd advise agains Tipp-ex on white dice, and instead look for good markers with colors close to the dice you use.
Alternative distributions may make things even more simple
If adding pips to existing dice does not discourage you, or you find cheap enough 12mm blank or custom dice - you may even consider alternate distributions to avoid the addition of a constant number. The following (non-exhaustive) list offers the same exact results as the previous one :
dice that range from 2 to 5:
output d{2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5}+d{2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5}
"very good dice" vs "very bad dice":
output d{3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6}+d{1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4}
rare extremes :
output d{3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6}+d{1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4}
Only downside : as the supreme potion does not follow the standard pattern, it would either need specific custom dice, or a +10 constant. I'd advise the latter.
If custom dice are not an option - flip them instead
Just define substitution rules on the potion's label, such as :
Black dice : flip the dice if it lands on a 5 or 6
White dice : flip the dice if it lands on a 1 or 2
Now they match the "very good dice" vs "very bad dice" distributions, and can be used for the same results.
- Healing potions get 1 of each
- Greater healing potions get 2 of each
- Superior healing potions get 4 or each
- Supreme healing potions either get 5 of each and a +10 - or you may use 8 good dice and 3 bad dice for approximately the same result.
How does it compare to other answers?
I couldn't resist the urge to aggregate the various methods listed here in a single anydice link (use comments to focus on a single potion when necessary - sorry I couldn't include rerolls!).
This method seems closest to the DMG calculation, but obviously can't beat Limari's proposal efficiency :)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is definitely the sort of solution my mind went to first. What do you think about suggesting that OP start with blank dice (like can be found here for approx. $0.20 per) rather than modifying dice that already have pips?
$endgroup$
– nitsua60♦
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
The downvoted answers violate the restrictions of the problem; yours doesn't, so it gets my upvote. Granted, one of my implicit requirements was that I'm using unmodified Chessex 16mm "block of dice" d6's, and I won't be marking them like you suggest, but your solution would work great if I were willing to fill in some of the pips.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think it's probably worth noting that 2 and 4 pips can always be removed from the 5 and 6 faces of a d6 in such a way as to produce the standard arrangement of pips for the reduced face. For example, removing 2 opposite corner pips from the 5 face leaves 3 pips in a diagonal, which is the standard arrangement for 3. So there's no worry about having unfamiliar pip arrangements on the modified faces.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd rather not revise the question after answers come in. Your answer is good. I'm unlikely to accept it, but somebody else will surely find it useful, and the ideas are sound.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson I thought about it, but wanted to keep things short. Does that wording make it clear enough for you ? Thanks for the feedback!
$endgroup$
– Bash
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use d6 with customised distribution
As potions use d4 in pairs, you may modify standard d6 pairs to approximate the same results:
- one dice should have 2 pips removed from the 5 and 6 faces (they become "standard-looking" 3 and 4) - leading to a dice distribution of {1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4} - call it the "good dice", and use green / white ones.
- the other one should have 4 pips removed from the 5 and 6 faces (they become "standard-looking" 1 and 2) - leading to a dice distribution of {1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4} - call it the "bad dice", and use red / black ones.
That way, whenever you roll one of each, you obtain the exact same mean, maximum and minimum - and a very similar variance as 2d4.
Anydice comparison for a standard potion of healing:
output d{1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4}+d{1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4}+2
output 2d4+2
The tricky part is obviously to modify the dice so that they remain legible, and keep a good balance - I'd advise agains Tipp-ex on white dice, and instead look for good markers with colors close to the dice you use.
Alternative distributions may make things even more simple
If adding pips to existing dice does not discourage you, or you find cheap enough 12mm blank or custom dice - you may even consider alternate distributions to avoid the addition of a constant number. The following (non-exhaustive) list offers the same exact results as the previous one :
dice that range from 2 to 5:
output d{2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5}+d{2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5}
"very good dice" vs "very bad dice":
output d{3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6}+d{1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4}
rare extremes :
output d{3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6}+d{1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4}
Only downside : as the supreme potion does not follow the standard pattern, it would either need specific custom dice, or a +10 constant. I'd advise the latter.
If custom dice are not an option - flip them instead
Just define substitution rules on the potion's label, such as :
Black dice : flip the dice if it lands on a 5 or 6
White dice : flip the dice if it lands on a 1 or 2
Now they match the "very good dice" vs "very bad dice" distributions, and can be used for the same results.
- Healing potions get 1 of each
- Greater healing potions get 2 of each
- Superior healing potions get 4 or each
- Supreme healing potions either get 5 of each and a +10 - or you may use 8 good dice and 3 bad dice for approximately the same result.
How does it compare to other answers?
I couldn't resist the urge to aggregate the various methods listed here in a single anydice link (use comments to focus on a single potion when necessary - sorry I couldn't include rerolls!).
This method seems closest to the DMG calculation, but obviously can't beat Limari's proposal efficiency :)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is definitely the sort of solution my mind went to first. What do you think about suggesting that OP start with blank dice (like can be found here for approx. $0.20 per) rather than modifying dice that already have pips?
$endgroup$
– nitsua60♦
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
The downvoted answers violate the restrictions of the problem; yours doesn't, so it gets my upvote. Granted, one of my implicit requirements was that I'm using unmodified Chessex 16mm "block of dice" d6's, and I won't be marking them like you suggest, but your solution would work great if I were willing to fill in some of the pips.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think it's probably worth noting that 2 and 4 pips can always be removed from the 5 and 6 faces of a d6 in such a way as to produce the standard arrangement of pips for the reduced face. For example, removing 2 opposite corner pips from the 5 face leaves 3 pips in a diagonal, which is the standard arrangement for 3. So there's no worry about having unfamiliar pip arrangements on the modified faces.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd rather not revise the question after answers come in. Your answer is good. I'm unlikely to accept it, but somebody else will surely find it useful, and the ideas are sound.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson I thought about it, but wanted to keep things short. Does that wording make it clear enough for you ? Thanks for the feedback!
$endgroup$
– Bash
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use d6 with customised distribution
As potions use d4 in pairs, you may modify standard d6 pairs to approximate the same results:
- one dice should have 2 pips removed from the 5 and 6 faces (they become "standard-looking" 3 and 4) - leading to a dice distribution of {1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4} - call it the "good dice", and use green / white ones.
- the other one should have 4 pips removed from the 5 and 6 faces (they become "standard-looking" 1 and 2) - leading to a dice distribution of {1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4} - call it the "bad dice", and use red / black ones.
That way, whenever you roll one of each, you obtain the exact same mean, maximum and minimum - and a very similar variance as 2d4.
Anydice comparison for a standard potion of healing:
output d{1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4}+d{1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4}+2
output 2d4+2
The tricky part is obviously to modify the dice so that they remain legible, and keep a good balance - I'd advise agains Tipp-ex on white dice, and instead look for good markers with colors close to the dice you use.
Alternative distributions may make things even more simple
If adding pips to existing dice does not discourage you, or you find cheap enough 12mm blank or custom dice - you may even consider alternate distributions to avoid the addition of a constant number. The following (non-exhaustive) list offers the same exact results as the previous one :
dice that range from 2 to 5:
output d{2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5}+d{2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5}
"very good dice" vs "very bad dice":
output d{3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6}+d{1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4}
rare extremes :
output d{3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6}+d{1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4}
Only downside : as the supreme potion does not follow the standard pattern, it would either need specific custom dice, or a +10 constant. I'd advise the latter.
If custom dice are not an option - flip them instead
Just define substitution rules on the potion's label, such as :
Black dice : flip the dice if it lands on a 5 or 6
White dice : flip the dice if it lands on a 1 or 2
Now they match the "very good dice" vs "very bad dice" distributions, and can be used for the same results.
- Healing potions get 1 of each
- Greater healing potions get 2 of each
- Superior healing potions get 4 or each
- Supreme healing potions either get 5 of each and a +10 - or you may use 8 good dice and 3 bad dice for approximately the same result.
How does it compare to other answers?
I couldn't resist the urge to aggregate the various methods listed here in a single anydice link (use comments to focus on a single potion when necessary - sorry I couldn't include rerolls!).
This method seems closest to the DMG calculation, but obviously can't beat Limari's proposal efficiency :)
$endgroup$
Use d6 with customised distribution
As potions use d4 in pairs, you may modify standard d6 pairs to approximate the same results:
- one dice should have 2 pips removed from the 5 and 6 faces (they become "standard-looking" 3 and 4) - leading to a dice distribution of {1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4} - call it the "good dice", and use green / white ones.
- the other one should have 4 pips removed from the 5 and 6 faces (they become "standard-looking" 1 and 2) - leading to a dice distribution of {1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4} - call it the "bad dice", and use red / black ones.
That way, whenever you roll one of each, you obtain the exact same mean, maximum and minimum - and a very similar variance as 2d4.
Anydice comparison for a standard potion of healing:
output d{1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4}+d{1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4}+2
output 2d4+2
The tricky part is obviously to modify the dice so that they remain legible, and keep a good balance - I'd advise agains Tipp-ex on white dice, and instead look for good markers with colors close to the dice you use.
Alternative distributions may make things even more simple
If adding pips to existing dice does not discourage you, or you find cheap enough 12mm blank or custom dice - you may even consider alternate distributions to avoid the addition of a constant number. The following (non-exhaustive) list offers the same exact results as the previous one :
dice that range from 2 to 5:
output d{2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5}+d{2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5}
"very good dice" vs "very bad dice":
output d{3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6}+d{1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4}
rare extremes :
output d{3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6}+d{1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4}
Only downside : as the supreme potion does not follow the standard pattern, it would either need specific custom dice, or a +10 constant. I'd advise the latter.
If custom dice are not an option - flip them instead
Just define substitution rules on the potion's label, such as :
Black dice : flip the dice if it lands on a 5 or 6
White dice : flip the dice if it lands on a 1 or 2
Now they match the "very good dice" vs "very bad dice" distributions, and can be used for the same results.
- Healing potions get 1 of each
- Greater healing potions get 2 of each
- Superior healing potions get 4 or each
- Supreme healing potions either get 5 of each and a +10 - or you may use 8 good dice and 3 bad dice for approximately the same result.
How does it compare to other answers?
I couldn't resist the urge to aggregate the various methods listed here in a single anydice link (use comments to focus on a single potion when necessary - sorry I couldn't include rerolls!).
This method seems closest to the DMG calculation, but obviously can't beat Limari's proposal efficiency :)
edited 4 hours ago
answered 17 hours ago
BashBash
966117
966117
$begingroup$
This is definitely the sort of solution my mind went to first. What do you think about suggesting that OP start with blank dice (like can be found here for approx. $0.20 per) rather than modifying dice that already have pips?
$endgroup$
– nitsua60♦
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
The downvoted answers violate the restrictions of the problem; yours doesn't, so it gets my upvote. Granted, one of my implicit requirements was that I'm using unmodified Chessex 16mm "block of dice" d6's, and I won't be marking them like you suggest, but your solution would work great if I were willing to fill in some of the pips.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think it's probably worth noting that 2 and 4 pips can always be removed from the 5 and 6 faces of a d6 in such a way as to produce the standard arrangement of pips for the reduced face. For example, removing 2 opposite corner pips from the 5 face leaves 3 pips in a diagonal, which is the standard arrangement for 3. So there's no worry about having unfamiliar pip arrangements on the modified faces.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd rather not revise the question after answers come in. Your answer is good. I'm unlikely to accept it, but somebody else will surely find it useful, and the ideas are sound.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson I thought about it, but wanted to keep things short. Does that wording make it clear enough for you ? Thanks for the feedback!
$endgroup$
– Bash
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is definitely the sort of solution my mind went to first. What do you think about suggesting that OP start with blank dice (like can be found here for approx. $0.20 per) rather than modifying dice that already have pips?
$endgroup$
– nitsua60♦
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
The downvoted answers violate the restrictions of the problem; yours doesn't, so it gets my upvote. Granted, one of my implicit requirements was that I'm using unmodified Chessex 16mm "block of dice" d6's, and I won't be marking them like you suggest, but your solution would work great if I were willing to fill in some of the pips.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think it's probably worth noting that 2 and 4 pips can always be removed from the 5 and 6 faces of a d6 in such a way as to produce the standard arrangement of pips for the reduced face. For example, removing 2 opposite corner pips from the 5 face leaves 3 pips in a diagonal, which is the standard arrangement for 3. So there's no worry about having unfamiliar pip arrangements on the modified faces.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd rather not revise the question after answers come in. Your answer is good. I'm unlikely to accept it, but somebody else will surely find it useful, and the ideas are sound.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson I thought about it, but wanted to keep things short. Does that wording make it clear enough for you ? Thanks for the feedback!
$endgroup$
– Bash
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is definitely the sort of solution my mind went to first. What do you think about suggesting that OP start with blank dice (like can be found here for approx. $0.20 per) rather than modifying dice that already have pips?
$endgroup$
– nitsua60♦
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is definitely the sort of solution my mind went to first. What do you think about suggesting that OP start with blank dice (like can be found here for approx. $0.20 per) rather than modifying dice that already have pips?
$endgroup$
– nitsua60♦
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
The downvoted answers violate the restrictions of the problem; yours doesn't, so it gets my upvote. Granted, one of my implicit requirements was that I'm using unmodified Chessex 16mm "block of dice" d6's, and I won't be marking them like you suggest, but your solution would work great if I were willing to fill in some of the pips.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
The downvoted answers violate the restrictions of the problem; yours doesn't, so it gets my upvote. Granted, one of my implicit requirements was that I'm using unmodified Chessex 16mm "block of dice" d6's, and I won't be marking them like you suggest, but your solution would work great if I were willing to fill in some of the pips.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think it's probably worth noting that 2 and 4 pips can always be removed from the 5 and 6 faces of a d6 in such a way as to produce the standard arrangement of pips for the reduced face. For example, removing 2 opposite corner pips from the 5 face leaves 3 pips in a diagonal, which is the standard arrangement for 3. So there's no worry about having unfamiliar pip arrangements on the modified faces.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think it's probably worth noting that 2 and 4 pips can always be removed from the 5 and 6 faces of a d6 in such a way as to produce the standard arrangement of pips for the reduced face. For example, removing 2 opposite corner pips from the 5 face leaves 3 pips in a diagonal, which is the standard arrangement for 3. So there's no worry about having unfamiliar pip arrangements on the modified faces.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd rather not revise the question after answers come in. Your answer is good. I'm unlikely to accept it, but somebody else will surely find it useful, and the ideas are sound.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd rather not revise the question after answers come in. Your answer is good. I'm unlikely to accept it, but somebody else will surely find it useful, and the ideas are sound.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson I thought about it, but wanted to keep things short. Does that wording make it clear enough for you ? Thanks for the feedback!
$endgroup$
– Bash
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@RyanThompson I thought about it, but wanted to keep things short. Does that wording make it clear enough for you ? Thanks for the feedback!
$endgroup$
– Bash
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer includes a frame challenge - Apologies if it not relevant due to your specific craft project :)
Roll paper instead of 6-sided-dice.
After all, a potion's potency is much more influenced by the way it has been prepared, than it is by the way it is drinked. You may roll d4 by yourself before, note the result on a paper, roll it and put it in your vial.
Cons : Players don't get to roll dice. Part of the fun goes away.
Pros : Several, actually :
- Proper Nd4+N formulas are respected
- Surprise remains
- Cheaper than buying dice
- Faster than rolling dice in game
- You are not limited to healing potions
- The content may differ from the label (adulterated healing potion, or even worse - poison?)
- Sometimes, the players won't be able to tell. Did this Superior Healing potion heal only 17 hit points because of a lack of luck, or because it was a Greater Healing Potion?
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer includes a frame challenge - Apologies if it not relevant due to your specific craft project :)
Roll paper instead of 6-sided-dice.
After all, a potion's potency is much more influenced by the way it has been prepared, than it is by the way it is drinked. You may roll d4 by yourself before, note the result on a paper, roll it and put it in your vial.
Cons : Players don't get to roll dice. Part of the fun goes away.
Pros : Several, actually :
- Proper Nd4+N formulas are respected
- Surprise remains
- Cheaper than buying dice
- Faster than rolling dice in game
- You are not limited to healing potions
- The content may differ from the label (adulterated healing potion, or even worse - poison?)
- Sometimes, the players won't be able to tell. Did this Superior Healing potion heal only 17 hit points because of a lack of luck, or because it was a Greater Healing Potion?
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer includes a frame challenge - Apologies if it not relevant due to your specific craft project :)
Roll paper instead of 6-sided-dice.
After all, a potion's potency is much more influenced by the way it has been prepared, than it is by the way it is drinked. You may roll d4 by yourself before, note the result on a paper, roll it and put it in your vial.
Cons : Players don't get to roll dice. Part of the fun goes away.
Pros : Several, actually :
- Proper Nd4+N formulas are respected
- Surprise remains
- Cheaper than buying dice
- Faster than rolling dice in game
- You are not limited to healing potions
- The content may differ from the label (adulterated healing potion, or even worse - poison?)
- Sometimes, the players won't be able to tell. Did this Superior Healing potion heal only 17 hit points because of a lack of luck, or because it was a Greater Healing Potion?
$endgroup$
This answer includes a frame challenge - Apologies if it not relevant due to your specific craft project :)
Roll paper instead of 6-sided-dice.
After all, a potion's potency is much more influenced by the way it has been prepared, than it is by the way it is drinked. You may roll d4 by yourself before, note the result on a paper, roll it and put it in your vial.
Cons : Players don't get to roll dice. Part of the fun goes away.
Pros : Several, actually :
- Proper Nd4+N formulas are respected
- Surprise remains
- Cheaper than buying dice
- Faster than rolling dice in game
- You are not limited to healing potions
- The content may differ from the label (adulterated healing potion, or even worse - poison?)
- Sometimes, the players won't be able to tell. Did this Superior Healing potion heal only 17 hit points because of a lack of luck, or because it was a Greater Healing Potion?
edited 12 hours ago
answered 12 hours ago
BashBash
966117
966117
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is an excruciatingly correct method for deriving 1d4 from 2d6... and I do mean excruciatingly: Take inspiration from how 2d10 are converted to a 1d100 percentile throw. More specifically, treat one of the d6 throws as a "ones" die, and another of the d6 throws as a "twos" die (as opposed to a "tens" die for a percentile throw.)
But wait, how is a d6 treated as a "ones" die? By convention: 1, 2, or 3 are treated as 0, while 4, 5, or 6 are treated as 1.
But wait, how is a d6 treated as a "twos" die? By convention: 1, 2, or 3 are treated as 0, while 4, 5, or 6 are treated as 2.
Then add the results, which will range from 0 to 3. Add 1 to get a conventional 1d4 or 2 to get your 1d4+1.
But wait, what the heck are you talking about, how does this even work?
Here, see this table, which by casual inspection shows us that the distribution of 1s, 2s, 3s, and 4s is uniform and thus functionally equivalent to 1d4, without needing to re-roll.
begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|}
hline
text{“twos” d6} & text{twos} & text{“ones” d6} & text{ones} & text{1d4} \ hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
1 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
1 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
4 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
4 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
4 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
end{array}
But wait, how do I get this to work for 4d4+4? Use more dice. The remaining logistics are left as an exercise for the querent depending on their materials at hand, but color coding dice pairs and scribing the "twos" dice is one possible solution.
In fact, the excruciating table above is meant to motivate the idea of converting 2d6 into 1d4. It is not actually necessary to pair, e.g., these two green d6s into a single d4, and those two red d6s into another separate d4.
Instead, one can color code the "ones" dice vs the "twos" dice, i.e., black dice for "ones" and and red dice for "twos".
Then a roll of black = (1, 2, 3, 4) and red = (3, 4, 5, 6) converts to:
Black = (0 + 0 + 0 + 1) and red = (0 + 2 + 2 + 2) for a total of 1 + 6 + 4 + 4 = 15 (where the first 4 is necessary to convert to a d4 and the second 4 converts to d4+1)
Finally if you can find appropriately sized blank d6s which you believe are fair, you can skip all this numerical conversion stuff and just paint the appropriate numerals on the faces of the dice.
If these are always and forever going to be used for 1d4+1, just paint the "twos" dice with 1 and 3, and the "ones" dice with 1 and 2. You can just sum those up directly, and save yourself the hassle of adding those 4's every time.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
It's not obvious that this is intended as a solution to my problem rather than a joke. This violates the restriction of simple rules of thumb. The answer would seem more serious if you could explain how a person at the table could easily remember and compute the math.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It is intended as a serious alternative, because it does not require re-rolling (which I find inelegant), does not require addition of coins or other token (which violates the the guidelines), and does not change the probability distribution in some way. It is an exact solution which is not conceptually more difficult than rolling multiple percentile dice at once.
$endgroup$
– Novak
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bloodcinder there is an even simpler but related way, included at the end, inspired by the answer from Trish, if you can find blank dice that fit your vials.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is an excruciatingly correct method for deriving 1d4 from 2d6... and I do mean excruciatingly: Take inspiration from how 2d10 are converted to a 1d100 percentile throw. More specifically, treat one of the d6 throws as a "ones" die, and another of the d6 throws as a "twos" die (as opposed to a "tens" die for a percentile throw.)
But wait, how is a d6 treated as a "ones" die? By convention: 1, 2, or 3 are treated as 0, while 4, 5, or 6 are treated as 1.
But wait, how is a d6 treated as a "twos" die? By convention: 1, 2, or 3 are treated as 0, while 4, 5, or 6 are treated as 2.
Then add the results, which will range from 0 to 3. Add 1 to get a conventional 1d4 or 2 to get your 1d4+1.
But wait, what the heck are you talking about, how does this even work?
Here, see this table, which by casual inspection shows us that the distribution of 1s, 2s, 3s, and 4s is uniform and thus functionally equivalent to 1d4, without needing to re-roll.
begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|}
hline
text{“twos” d6} & text{twos} & text{“ones” d6} & text{ones} & text{1d4} \ hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
1 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
1 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
4 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
4 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
4 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
end{array}
But wait, how do I get this to work for 4d4+4? Use more dice. The remaining logistics are left as an exercise for the querent depending on their materials at hand, but color coding dice pairs and scribing the "twos" dice is one possible solution.
In fact, the excruciating table above is meant to motivate the idea of converting 2d6 into 1d4. It is not actually necessary to pair, e.g., these two green d6s into a single d4, and those two red d6s into another separate d4.
Instead, one can color code the "ones" dice vs the "twos" dice, i.e., black dice for "ones" and and red dice for "twos".
Then a roll of black = (1, 2, 3, 4) and red = (3, 4, 5, 6) converts to:
Black = (0 + 0 + 0 + 1) and red = (0 + 2 + 2 + 2) for a total of 1 + 6 + 4 + 4 = 15 (where the first 4 is necessary to convert to a d4 and the second 4 converts to d4+1)
Finally if you can find appropriately sized blank d6s which you believe are fair, you can skip all this numerical conversion stuff and just paint the appropriate numerals on the faces of the dice.
If these are always and forever going to be used for 1d4+1, just paint the "twos" dice with 1 and 3, and the "ones" dice with 1 and 2. You can just sum those up directly, and save yourself the hassle of adding those 4's every time.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
It's not obvious that this is intended as a solution to my problem rather than a joke. This violates the restriction of simple rules of thumb. The answer would seem more serious if you could explain how a person at the table could easily remember and compute the math.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It is intended as a serious alternative, because it does not require re-rolling (which I find inelegant), does not require addition of coins or other token (which violates the the guidelines), and does not change the probability distribution in some way. It is an exact solution which is not conceptually more difficult than rolling multiple percentile dice at once.
$endgroup$
– Novak
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bloodcinder there is an even simpler but related way, included at the end, inspired by the answer from Trish, if you can find blank dice that fit your vials.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is an excruciatingly correct method for deriving 1d4 from 2d6... and I do mean excruciatingly: Take inspiration from how 2d10 are converted to a 1d100 percentile throw. More specifically, treat one of the d6 throws as a "ones" die, and another of the d6 throws as a "twos" die (as opposed to a "tens" die for a percentile throw.)
But wait, how is a d6 treated as a "ones" die? By convention: 1, 2, or 3 are treated as 0, while 4, 5, or 6 are treated as 1.
But wait, how is a d6 treated as a "twos" die? By convention: 1, 2, or 3 are treated as 0, while 4, 5, or 6 are treated as 2.
Then add the results, which will range from 0 to 3. Add 1 to get a conventional 1d4 or 2 to get your 1d4+1.
But wait, what the heck are you talking about, how does this even work?
Here, see this table, which by casual inspection shows us that the distribution of 1s, 2s, 3s, and 4s is uniform and thus functionally equivalent to 1d4, without needing to re-roll.
begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|}
hline
text{“twos” d6} & text{twos} & text{“ones” d6} & text{ones} & text{1d4} \ hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
1 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
1 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
4 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
4 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
4 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
end{array}
But wait, how do I get this to work for 4d4+4? Use more dice. The remaining logistics are left as an exercise for the querent depending on their materials at hand, but color coding dice pairs and scribing the "twos" dice is one possible solution.
In fact, the excruciating table above is meant to motivate the idea of converting 2d6 into 1d4. It is not actually necessary to pair, e.g., these two green d6s into a single d4, and those two red d6s into another separate d4.
Instead, one can color code the "ones" dice vs the "twos" dice, i.e., black dice for "ones" and and red dice for "twos".
Then a roll of black = (1, 2, 3, 4) and red = (3, 4, 5, 6) converts to:
Black = (0 + 0 + 0 + 1) and red = (0 + 2 + 2 + 2) for a total of 1 + 6 + 4 + 4 = 15 (where the first 4 is necessary to convert to a d4 and the second 4 converts to d4+1)
Finally if you can find appropriately sized blank d6s which you believe are fair, you can skip all this numerical conversion stuff and just paint the appropriate numerals on the faces of the dice.
If these are always and forever going to be used for 1d4+1, just paint the "twos" dice with 1 and 3, and the "ones" dice with 1 and 2. You can just sum those up directly, and save yourself the hassle of adding those 4's every time.
$endgroup$
This is an excruciatingly correct method for deriving 1d4 from 2d6... and I do mean excruciatingly: Take inspiration from how 2d10 are converted to a 1d100 percentile throw. More specifically, treat one of the d6 throws as a "ones" die, and another of the d6 throws as a "twos" die (as opposed to a "tens" die for a percentile throw.)
But wait, how is a d6 treated as a "ones" die? By convention: 1, 2, or 3 are treated as 0, while 4, 5, or 6 are treated as 1.
But wait, how is a d6 treated as a "twos" die? By convention: 1, 2, or 3 are treated as 0, while 4, 5, or 6 are treated as 2.
Then add the results, which will range from 0 to 3. Add 1 to get a conventional 1d4 or 2 to get your 1d4+1.
But wait, what the heck are you talking about, how does this even work?
Here, see this table, which by casual inspection shows us that the distribution of 1s, 2s, 3s, and 4s is uniform and thus functionally equivalent to 1d4, without needing to re-roll.
begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|}
hline
text{“twos” d6} & text{twos} & text{“ones” d6} & text{ones} & text{1d4} \ hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
1 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
1 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
1 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
2 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
2 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 3 & 0 & 1\ hline
3 & 0 & 4 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 5 & 1 & 2\ hline
3 & 0 & 6 & 1 & 2\ hline
4 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
4 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
4 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
4 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
5 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
5 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 2 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 3 & 0 & 3\ hline
6 & 2 & 4 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 5 & 1 & 4\ hline
6 & 2 & 6 & 1 & 4\ hline
end{array}
But wait, how do I get this to work for 4d4+4? Use more dice. The remaining logistics are left as an exercise for the querent depending on their materials at hand, but color coding dice pairs and scribing the "twos" dice is one possible solution.
In fact, the excruciating table above is meant to motivate the idea of converting 2d6 into 1d4. It is not actually necessary to pair, e.g., these two green d6s into a single d4, and those two red d6s into another separate d4.
Instead, one can color code the "ones" dice vs the "twos" dice, i.e., black dice for "ones" and and red dice for "twos".
Then a roll of black = (1, 2, 3, 4) and red = (3, 4, 5, 6) converts to:
Black = (0 + 0 + 0 + 1) and red = (0 + 2 + 2 + 2) for a total of 1 + 6 + 4 + 4 = 15 (where the first 4 is necessary to convert to a d4 and the second 4 converts to d4+1)
Finally if you can find appropriately sized blank d6s which you believe are fair, you can skip all this numerical conversion stuff and just paint the appropriate numerals on the faces of the dice.
If these are always and forever going to be used for 1d4+1, just paint the "twos" dice with 1 and 3, and the "ones" dice with 1 and 2. You can just sum those up directly, and save yourself the hassle of adding those 4's every time.
edited 7 hours ago
answered yesterday
NovakNovak
19.1k53679
19.1k53679
1
$begingroup$
It's not obvious that this is intended as a solution to my problem rather than a joke. This violates the restriction of simple rules of thumb. The answer would seem more serious if you could explain how a person at the table could easily remember and compute the math.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It is intended as a serious alternative, because it does not require re-rolling (which I find inelegant), does not require addition of coins or other token (which violates the the guidelines), and does not change the probability distribution in some way. It is an exact solution which is not conceptually more difficult than rolling multiple percentile dice at once.
$endgroup$
– Novak
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bloodcinder there is an even simpler but related way, included at the end, inspired by the answer from Trish, if you can find blank dice that fit your vials.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
It's not obvious that this is intended as a solution to my problem rather than a joke. This violates the restriction of simple rules of thumb. The answer would seem more serious if you could explain how a person at the table could easily remember and compute the math.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
13 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It is intended as a serious alternative, because it does not require re-rolling (which I find inelegant), does not require addition of coins or other token (which violates the the guidelines), and does not change the probability distribution in some way. It is an exact solution which is not conceptually more difficult than rolling multiple percentile dice at once.
$endgroup$
– Novak
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bloodcinder there is an even simpler but related way, included at the end, inspired by the answer from Trish, if you can find blank dice that fit your vials.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
It's not obvious that this is intended as a solution to my problem rather than a joke. This violates the restriction of simple rules of thumb. The answer would seem more serious if you could explain how a person at the table could easily remember and compute the math.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
It's not obvious that this is intended as a solution to my problem rather than a joke. This violates the restriction of simple rules of thumb. The answer would seem more serious if you could explain how a person at the table could easily remember and compute the math.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
13 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
It is intended as a serious alternative, because it does not require re-rolling (which I find inelegant), does not require addition of coins or other token (which violates the the guidelines), and does not change the probability distribution in some way. It is an exact solution which is not conceptually more difficult than rolling multiple percentile dice at once.
$endgroup$
– Novak
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
It is intended as a serious alternative, because it does not require re-rolling (which I find inelegant), does not require addition of coins or other token (which violates the the guidelines), and does not change the probability distribution in some way. It is an exact solution which is not conceptually more difficult than rolling multiple percentile dice at once.
$endgroup$
– Novak
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bloodcinder there is an even simpler but related way, included at the end, inspired by the answer from Trish, if you can find blank dice that fit your vials.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Bloodcinder there is an even simpler but related way, included at the end, inspired by the answer from Trish, if you can find blank dice that fit your vials.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Several ways actually!
modified dice
let's get some blank dice. Now we mark two sides opposite each other as blank for reroll. And then we mark the other 4 sides with 1 to 4, using 1-2-4-3 as the order when spinning the die around the reroll axis. (or, if you want to incorporate the +1 per d4: 2-3-5-4)
- Pro: perfectly models a d4 (or d4+1)
- Con: modified dice & possibly multiple rerolls
adding "coins"
As an alternative to modifying the dice, we can add some "coin tosses". Let's first look at what a coin could do: for each 5 and 6 one coin is tossed. A head modifies one number above 4 by -4
, a tail by -2
, turning the die to be either a 1-2-3-4-1-2 (head) or 1-2-3-4-3-4 (tails). Each distribution happens 50% of the time, so the resulting distribution is exactly as the d4.
- Pro: perfectly models a d4
- Con: the need for additional coin tosses up to the number of dice.
But do we need a coin? No. Not actually. Let's look at the dice. If we color code them, so that each is a different color, we could make a circle system. Like for 5d4 we might write down "black-red-green-umbra-white(-black)". If one shows a 5 or 6, we look if the next die in the row is even (head) or odd (tails). Even and odd results are just like a coin and it's quite common to replace coin tosses with this.
Example: We roll 5d4 using the above color code and get b5 r2 g3 u6 w5
. With even being -4
and odd -2
that gets turned into b1 r2 g3 u2 w3
. That's 11.
- pro: perfectly models a d4, no modified items or extra things needed
- con: the need to mark down the color-code along the dice tube.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
+1 for inspiration of blank dice.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Several ways actually!
modified dice
let's get some blank dice. Now we mark two sides opposite each other as blank for reroll. And then we mark the other 4 sides with 1 to 4, using 1-2-4-3 as the order when spinning the die around the reroll axis. (or, if you want to incorporate the +1 per d4: 2-3-5-4)
- Pro: perfectly models a d4 (or d4+1)
- Con: modified dice & possibly multiple rerolls
adding "coins"
As an alternative to modifying the dice, we can add some "coin tosses". Let's first look at what a coin could do: for each 5 and 6 one coin is tossed. A head modifies one number above 4 by -4
, a tail by -2
, turning the die to be either a 1-2-3-4-1-2 (head) or 1-2-3-4-3-4 (tails). Each distribution happens 50% of the time, so the resulting distribution is exactly as the d4.
- Pro: perfectly models a d4
- Con: the need for additional coin tosses up to the number of dice.
But do we need a coin? No. Not actually. Let's look at the dice. If we color code them, so that each is a different color, we could make a circle system. Like for 5d4 we might write down "black-red-green-umbra-white(-black)". If one shows a 5 or 6, we look if the next die in the row is even (head) or odd (tails). Even and odd results are just like a coin and it's quite common to replace coin tosses with this.
Example: We roll 5d4 using the above color code and get b5 r2 g3 u6 w5
. With even being -4
and odd -2
that gets turned into b1 r2 g3 u2 w3
. That's 11.
- pro: perfectly models a d4, no modified items or extra things needed
- con: the need to mark down the color-code along the dice tube.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
+1 for inspiration of blank dice.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Several ways actually!
modified dice
let's get some blank dice. Now we mark two sides opposite each other as blank for reroll. And then we mark the other 4 sides with 1 to 4, using 1-2-4-3 as the order when spinning the die around the reroll axis. (or, if you want to incorporate the +1 per d4: 2-3-5-4)
- Pro: perfectly models a d4 (or d4+1)
- Con: modified dice & possibly multiple rerolls
adding "coins"
As an alternative to modifying the dice, we can add some "coin tosses". Let's first look at what a coin could do: for each 5 and 6 one coin is tossed. A head modifies one number above 4 by -4
, a tail by -2
, turning the die to be either a 1-2-3-4-1-2 (head) or 1-2-3-4-3-4 (tails). Each distribution happens 50% of the time, so the resulting distribution is exactly as the d4.
- Pro: perfectly models a d4
- Con: the need for additional coin tosses up to the number of dice.
But do we need a coin? No. Not actually. Let's look at the dice. If we color code them, so that each is a different color, we could make a circle system. Like for 5d4 we might write down "black-red-green-umbra-white(-black)". If one shows a 5 or 6, we look if the next die in the row is even (head) or odd (tails). Even and odd results are just like a coin and it's quite common to replace coin tosses with this.
Example: We roll 5d4 using the above color code and get b5 r2 g3 u6 w5
. With even being -4
and odd -2
that gets turned into b1 r2 g3 u2 w3
. That's 11.
- pro: perfectly models a d4, no modified items or extra things needed
- con: the need to mark down the color-code along the dice tube.
$endgroup$
Several ways actually!
modified dice
let's get some blank dice. Now we mark two sides opposite each other as blank for reroll. And then we mark the other 4 sides with 1 to 4, using 1-2-4-3 as the order when spinning the die around the reroll axis. (or, if you want to incorporate the +1 per d4: 2-3-5-4)
- Pro: perfectly models a d4 (or d4+1)
- Con: modified dice & possibly multiple rerolls
adding "coins"
As an alternative to modifying the dice, we can add some "coin tosses". Let's first look at what a coin could do: for each 5 and 6 one coin is tossed. A head modifies one number above 4 by -4
, a tail by -2
, turning the die to be either a 1-2-3-4-1-2 (head) or 1-2-3-4-3-4 (tails). Each distribution happens 50% of the time, so the resulting distribution is exactly as the d4.
- Pro: perfectly models a d4
- Con: the need for additional coin tosses up to the number of dice.
But do we need a coin? No. Not actually. Let's look at the dice. If we color code them, so that each is a different color, we could make a circle system. Like for 5d4 we might write down "black-red-green-umbra-white(-black)". If one shows a 5 or 6, we look if the next die in the row is even (head) or odd (tails). Even and odd results are just like a coin and it's quite common to replace coin tosses with this.
Example: We roll 5d4 using the above color code and get b5 r2 g3 u6 w5
. With even being -4
and odd -2
that gets turned into b1 r2 g3 u2 w3
. That's 11.
- pro: perfectly models a d4, no modified items or extra things needed
- con: the need to mark down the color-code along the dice tube.
edited 7 hours ago
answered yesterday
TrishTrish
10.5k3079
10.5k3079
$begingroup$
+1 for inspiration of blank dice.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
+1 for inspiration of blank dice.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
+1 for inspiration of blank dice.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
+1 for inspiration of blank dice.
$endgroup$
– Novak
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Would you be the only user (as a DM? Player?), or are you considering offering / selling it?
$endgroup$
– Bash
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
The craft project would be in use at my table only, for me and my players.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
You've stated d6 must be used: do they have to be regular d6? i.e some tippex and permanent marker can change the 1 and 6 faces to 3 and 4, making your d6 approximate d4+1 fairly well.
$endgroup$
– frodoskywalker
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@frodoskywalker In the question as asked, they don't have to be standard d6's. Somebody already answered what you just suggested. In reality, I'm unwilling to create/modify dice, but as far as the question is concerned that strategy is legitimate.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
5 hours ago