Is this a submanifold?When is a conjugacy class of matrices an embedded submanifold?Finding covariant...
Is this a submanifold?
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$begingroup$
Let $(M,g)$ be a compact Riemannian manifold with an isometric action $rho : G to mathrm{Iso}(M)$ by a compact Lie group $G$. There is a natural extension of $rho$ to $TM$ given by:
$$psi : G times TM to TM$$
$$psi(g,p,X) := (rho(g)p,drho(g)X).$$
I would like to know if the set:
$$TM supset tilde S := {(p,X) in TM : G_X = G_p}$$ is a submanifold of $TM$, and further, if $pi : TM to M$ is the natural projection, then $pi(tilde S)$ is a submanifold of $M$.
I tried the following approach:
For each $gin G$ consider $eta_g(p,X) equiv eta(g,p,X) := d^2_{TM}left((p,X),psi(g,p,X)right).$ Then, one has:
$$eta_g^{-1}(0) = {(p,X) :(rho(g)p,drho(g)X) = (p,X)}.$$
So,
$$tilde S = bigcup_{gin G}eta_g^{-1}(0). $$
But according to my calculation $0$ is not a regular value of $eta_g$.
I appreciate any help.
dg.differential-geometry riemannian-geometry differential-topology group-actions
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $(M,g)$ be a compact Riemannian manifold with an isometric action $rho : G to mathrm{Iso}(M)$ by a compact Lie group $G$. There is a natural extension of $rho$ to $TM$ given by:
$$psi : G times TM to TM$$
$$psi(g,p,X) := (rho(g)p,drho(g)X).$$
I would like to know if the set:
$$TM supset tilde S := {(p,X) in TM : G_X = G_p}$$ is a submanifold of $TM$, and further, if $pi : TM to M$ is the natural projection, then $pi(tilde S)$ is a submanifold of $M$.
I tried the following approach:
For each $gin G$ consider $eta_g(p,X) equiv eta(g,p,X) := d^2_{TM}left((p,X),psi(g,p,X)right).$ Then, one has:
$$eta_g^{-1}(0) = {(p,X) :(rho(g)p,drho(g)X) = (p,X)}.$$
So,
$$tilde S = bigcup_{gin G}eta_g^{-1}(0). $$
But according to my calculation $0$ is not a regular value of $eta_g$.
I appreciate any help.
dg.differential-geometry riemannian-geometry differential-topology group-actions
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is this a pigeon? ;-)
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
It's a meme, meant in good humour.
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
25 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $(M,g)$ be a compact Riemannian manifold with an isometric action $rho : G to mathrm{Iso}(M)$ by a compact Lie group $G$. There is a natural extension of $rho$ to $TM$ given by:
$$psi : G times TM to TM$$
$$psi(g,p,X) := (rho(g)p,drho(g)X).$$
I would like to know if the set:
$$TM supset tilde S := {(p,X) in TM : G_X = G_p}$$ is a submanifold of $TM$, and further, if $pi : TM to M$ is the natural projection, then $pi(tilde S)$ is a submanifold of $M$.
I tried the following approach:
For each $gin G$ consider $eta_g(p,X) equiv eta(g,p,X) := d^2_{TM}left((p,X),psi(g,p,X)right).$ Then, one has:
$$eta_g^{-1}(0) = {(p,X) :(rho(g)p,drho(g)X) = (p,X)}.$$
So,
$$tilde S = bigcup_{gin G}eta_g^{-1}(0). $$
But according to my calculation $0$ is not a regular value of $eta_g$.
I appreciate any help.
dg.differential-geometry riemannian-geometry differential-topology group-actions
$endgroup$
Let $(M,g)$ be a compact Riemannian manifold with an isometric action $rho : G to mathrm{Iso}(M)$ by a compact Lie group $G$. There is a natural extension of $rho$ to $TM$ given by:
$$psi : G times TM to TM$$
$$psi(g,p,X) := (rho(g)p,drho(g)X).$$
I would like to know if the set:
$$TM supset tilde S := {(p,X) in TM : G_X = G_p}$$ is a submanifold of $TM$, and further, if $pi : TM to M$ is the natural projection, then $pi(tilde S)$ is a submanifold of $M$.
I tried the following approach:
For each $gin G$ consider $eta_g(p,X) equiv eta(g,p,X) := d^2_{TM}left((p,X),psi(g,p,X)right).$ Then, one has:
$$eta_g^{-1}(0) = {(p,X) :(rho(g)p,drho(g)X) = (p,X)}.$$
So,
$$tilde S = bigcup_{gin G}eta_g^{-1}(0). $$
But according to my calculation $0$ is not a regular value of $eta_g$.
I appreciate any help.
dg.differential-geometry riemannian-geometry differential-topology group-actions
dg.differential-geometry riemannian-geometry differential-topology group-actions
edited 2 hours ago
Ali Taghavi
9152084
9152084
asked 4 hours ago
L.F. CavenaghiL.F. Cavenaghi
598213
598213
$begingroup$
Is this a pigeon? ;-)
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
It's a meme, meant in good humour.
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
25 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is this a pigeon? ;-)
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
It's a meme, meant in good humour.
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
25 mins ago
$begingroup$
Is this a pigeon? ;-)
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Is this a pigeon? ;-)
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
1
1
$begingroup$
It's a meme, meant in good humour.
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
25 mins ago
$begingroup$
It's a meme, meant in good humour.
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
25 mins ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
For the obvious reflection action of $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus {p,q}) cup {p_0,q_0}$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
"every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
$endgroup$
– Arun Debray
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
53 mins ago
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
7 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_{pin M} TM_p^{G_p}. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $TM_p^{G_p}$ is the same for all $pin M$.
$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminus{n,s})cup {n,s}$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
9 mins ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
For the obvious reflection action of $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus {p,q}) cup {p_0,q_0}$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
"every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
$endgroup$
– Arun Debray
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
53 mins ago
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
7 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For the obvious reflection action of $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus {p,q}) cup {p_0,q_0}$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
"every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
$endgroup$
– Arun Debray
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
53 mins ago
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
7 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For the obvious reflection action of $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus {p,q}) cup {p_0,q_0}$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.
$endgroup$
For the obvious reflection action of $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus {p,q}) cup {p_0,q_0}$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 2 hours ago
Ali TaghaviAli Taghavi
9152084
9152084
1
$begingroup$
"every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
$endgroup$
– Arun Debray
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
53 mins ago
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
7 mins ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
"every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
$endgroup$
– Arun Debray
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
53 mins ago
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
7 mins ago
1
1
$begingroup$
"every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
$endgroup$
– Arun Debray
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
"every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
$endgroup$
– Arun Debray
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
1 hour ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
53 mins ago
$begingroup$
You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
53 mins ago
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
7 mins ago
$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
7 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_{pin M} TM_p^{G_p}. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $TM_p^{G_p}$ is the same for all $pin M$.
$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminus{n,s})cup {n,s}$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
9 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_{pin M} TM_p^{G_p}. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $TM_p^{G_p}$ is the same for all $pin M$.
$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminus{n,s})cup {n,s}$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
9 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_{pin M} TM_p^{G_p}. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $TM_p^{G_p}$ is the same for all $pin M$.
$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminus{n,s})cup {n,s}$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.
$endgroup$
Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_{pin M} TM_p^{G_p}. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $TM_p^{G_p}$ is the same for all $pin M$.
$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminus{n,s})cup {n,s}$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.
answered 20 mins ago
Steve CostenobleSteve Costenoble
9451514
9451514
$begingroup$
what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
9 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
9 mins ago
$begingroup$
what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
9 mins ago
$begingroup$
what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
9 mins ago
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$begingroup$
Is this a pigeon? ;-)
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
It's a meme, meant in good humour.
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
25 mins ago