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Gemara word for QED

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Gemara word for QED

1

I'm trying to remember the Gemara word for the equivalent of QED, when an argument would be settled between competing opinions and nothing more would be said about the issue.

words talmud-gemara

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edited 5 hours ago

Alex

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asked 5 hours ago

gomishagomisha

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New contributor

gomisha is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Maybe קא משמע לן?
  
  – Double AA♦
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  שמע מינה? תיובתא?
  
  – robev
  5 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

1

I'm trying to remember the Gemara word for the equivalent of QED, when an argument would be settled between competing opinions and nothing more would be said about the issue.

words talmud-gemara

share|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Alex

21.8k153128

asked 5 hours ago

gomishagomisha

1061

New contributor

gomisha is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Maybe קא משמע לן?
  
  – Double AA♦
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  שמע מינה? תיובתא?
  
  – robev
  5 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

I'm trying to remember the Gemara word for the equivalent of QED, when an argument would be settled between competing opinions and nothing more would be said about the issue.

words talmud-gemara

share|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Alex

21.8k153128

asked 5 hours ago

gomishagomisha

1061

New contributor

gomisha is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Alex

21.8k153128

asked 5 hours ago

gomishagomisha

1061

New contributor

gomisha is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Alex

21.8k153128

asked 5 hours ago

gomishagomisha

1061

New contributor

gomisha is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

edited 5 hours ago

Alex

21.8k153128

edited 5 hours ago

Alex

21.8k153128

asked 5 hours ago

gomishagomisha

1061

New contributor

gomisha is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

asked 5 hours ago

gomishagomisha

1061

3 Answers
3

active

oldest

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3

You might be thinking of the word תיובתא as, for example, in Berachot 10b:

תיובתא דרב חסדא תיובתא

Is not this a refutation of R. Hisda? It is [indeed] a refutation. (Soncino translation)

As explained by several rishonim, e.g. Rashbam to Bava Batra 52b:

כל היכא דאמר בגמ' תיובתא דפלוני תיובתא בטלו דברי מי שהתיובתא עליו לגמרי

Anywhere that the Talmud says "Is not this a refutation of So-And-So? It is [indeed] a refutation", the words of he whom the refutation is upon are entirely rejected.

While this would be an official end to the discussion, it does not necessarily carry the same connotation of a rigorous logical/mathematical proof that QED would.

share|improve this answer

answered 5 hours ago

AlexAlex

21.8k153128

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  תיובתא is always a refutation. It's not used generally when proving something.
  
  – Daniel
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Daniel I was going on the wording of “when an argument would be settled between competing opinions and nothing more would be said about the issue”.
  
  – Alex
  32 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

I believe the word you are looking for is שמע מינה (we can [learn] from here). שמע מינה is often used when the Gemara asks for a proof to certain statement. If the Gemara brings a sastifying proof to something, it may end off by saying

.שמע מינה [like this statement] ,שמע מינה

It is basically saying we can learn out this statement from this proof, much like Q.E.D., it has been proven.

However, שמע מינה isn't only used to prove statements. It is also used in an attempt to prove a statement, before the actual proof is said. In that case it is more like saying let us try to learn from here. However, overall I would say that's definitely the word you are looking for.

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

RafaelRafael

436113

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Right answer. .
  
  – kouty
  33 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

I suspect that the phrase you're thinking of is קא משמע לן (ka mashma lan). It's not exactly QED, but it's often used similarly.

A typical usage that's most similar to Q.E.D. would be: "We would have thought X but Y therefore Z. Ka mashma lan."

share|improve this answer

answered 1 hour ago

DanielDaniel

15.3k231109

add a comment | 

3

You might be thinking of the word תיובתא as, for example, in Berachot 10b:

תיובתא דרב חסדא תיובתא

Is not this a refutation of R. Hisda? It is [indeed] a refutation. (Soncino translation)

As explained by several rishonim, e.g. Rashbam to Bava Batra 52b:

כל היכא דאמר בגמ' תיובתא דפלוני תיובתא בטלו דברי מי שהתיובתא עליו לגמרי

Anywhere that the Talmud says "Is not this a refutation of So-And-So? It is [indeed] a refutation", the words of he whom the refutation is upon are entirely rejected.

While this would be an official end to the discussion, it does not necessarily carry the same connotation of a rigorous logical/mathematical proof that QED would.

share|improve this answer

answered 5 hours ago

AlexAlex

21.8k153128

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  תיובתא is always a refutation. It's not used generally when proving something.
  
  – Daniel
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Daniel I was going on the wording of “when an argument would be settled between competing opinions and nothing more would be said about the issue”.
  
  – Alex
  32 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

3

You might be thinking of the word תיובתא as, for example, in Berachot 10b:

תיובתא דרב חסדא תיובתא

Is not this a refutation of R. Hisda? It is [indeed] a refutation. (Soncino translation)

As explained by several rishonim, e.g. Rashbam to Bava Batra 52b:

כל היכא דאמר בגמ' תיובתא דפלוני תיובתא בטלו דברי מי שהתיובתא עליו לגמרי

Anywhere that the Talmud says "Is not this a refutation of So-And-So? It is [indeed] a refutation", the words of he whom the refutation is upon are entirely rejected.

While this would be an official end to the discussion, it does not necessarily carry the same connotation of a rigorous logical/mathematical proof that QED would.

share|improve this answer

answered 5 hours ago

AlexAlex

21.8k153128

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  תיובתא is always a refutation. It's not used generally when proving something.
  
  – Daniel
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Daniel I was going on the wording of “when an argument would be settled between competing opinions and nothing more would be said about the issue”.
  
  – Alex
  32 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

You might be thinking of the word תיובתא as, for example, in Berachot 10b:

תיובתא דרב חסדא תיובתא

Is not this a refutation of R. Hisda? It is [indeed] a refutation. (Soncino translation)

As explained by several rishonim, e.g. Rashbam to Bava Batra 52b:

כל היכא דאמר בגמ' תיובתא דפלוני תיובתא בטלו דברי מי שהתיובתא עליו לגמרי

Anywhere that the Talmud says "Is not this a refutation of So-And-So? It is [indeed] a refutation", the words of he whom the refutation is upon are entirely rejected.

While this would be an official end to the discussion, it does not necessarily carry the same connotation of a rigorous logical/mathematical proof that QED would.

share|improve this answer

answered 5 hours ago

AlexAlex

21.8k153128

share|improve this answer

answered 5 hours ago

AlexAlex

21.8k153128

answered 5 hours ago

AlexAlex

21.8k153128

answered 5 hours ago

AlexAlex

21.8k153128

2

I believe the word you are looking for is שמע מינה (we can [learn] from here). שמע מינה is often used when the Gemara asks for a proof to certain statement. If the Gemara brings a sastifying proof to something, it may end off by saying

.שמע מינה [like this statement] ,שמע מינה

It is basically saying we can learn out this statement from this proof, much like Q.E.D., it has been proven.

However, שמע מינה isn't only used to prove statements. It is also used in an attempt to prove a statement, before the actual proof is said. In that case it is more like saying let us try to learn from here. However, overall I would say that's definitely the word you are looking for.

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

RafaelRafael

436113

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Right answer. .
  
  – kouty
  33 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

I believe the word you are looking for is שמע מינה (we can [learn] from here). שמע מינה is often used when the Gemara asks for a proof to certain statement. If the Gemara brings a sastifying proof to something, it may end off by saying

.שמע מינה [like this statement] ,שמע מינה

It is basically saying we can learn out this statement from this proof, much like Q.E.D., it has been proven.

However, שמע מינה isn't only used to prove statements. It is also used in an attempt to prove a statement, before the actual proof is said. In that case it is more like saying let us try to learn from here. However, overall I would say that's definitely the word you are looking for.

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

RafaelRafael

436113

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Right answer. .
  
  – kouty
  33 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

I believe the word you are looking for is שמע מינה (we can [learn] from here). שמע מינה is often used when the Gemara asks for a proof to certain statement. If the Gemara brings a sastifying proof to something, it may end off by saying

.שמע מינה [like this statement] ,שמע מינה

It is basically saying we can learn out this statement from this proof, much like Q.E.D., it has been proven.

However, שמע מינה isn't only used to prove statements. It is also used in an attempt to prove a statement, before the actual proof is said. In that case it is more like saying let us try to learn from here. However, overall I would say that's definitely the word you are looking for.

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

RafaelRafael

436113

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

RafaelRafael

436113

answered 2 hours ago

RafaelRafael

436113

answered 2 hours ago

RafaelRafael

436113

2

I suspect that the phrase you're thinking of is קא משמע לן (ka mashma lan). It's not exactly QED, but it's often used similarly.

A typical usage that's most similar to Q.E.D. would be: "We would have thought X but Y therefore Z. Ka mashma lan."

share|improve this answer

answered 1 hour ago

DanielDaniel

15.3k231109

add a comment | 

2

I suspect that the phrase you're thinking of is קא משמע לן (ka mashma lan). It's not exactly QED, but it's often used similarly.

A typical usage that's most similar to Q.E.D. would be: "We would have thought X but Y therefore Z. Ka mashma lan."

share|improve this answer

answered 1 hour ago

DanielDaniel

15.3k231109

add a comment | 

I suspect that the phrase you're thinking of is קא משמע לן (ka mashma lan). It's not exactly QED, but it's often used similarly.

A typical usage that's most similar to Q.E.D. would be: "We would have thought X but Y therefore Z. Ka mashma lan."

share|improve this answer

answered 1 hour ago

DanielDaniel

15.3k231109

share|improve this answer

answered 1 hour ago

DanielDaniel

15.3k231109

answered 1 hour ago

DanielDaniel

15.3k231109

answered 1 hour ago

DanielDaniel

15.3k231109