Why are special aircraft used for the carriers in the United States Navy?What are the advantages of the...

If nine coins are tossed, what is the probability that the number of heads is even?

Are all UTXOs locked by an address spent in a transaction?

How can I highlight parts in a screenshot

Make me a metasequence

PTIJ: Is all laundering forbidden during the 9 days?

Has Wakanda ever accepted refugees?

Draw bounding region by list of points

Create chunks from an array

Is there a math equivalent to the conditional ternary operator?

GDAL GetGeoTransform Documentation -- Is there an oversight, or what am I misunderstanding?

Is every open circuit a capacitor?

PTIJ: Why can't I sing about soda on certain days?

A bug in Excel? Conditional formatting for marking duplicates also highlights unique value

How can neutral atoms have exactly zero electric field when there is a difference in the positions of the charges?

Specific Chinese carabiner QA?

function only contains jump discontinuity but is not piecewise continuous

How to disable or uninstall iTunes under High Sierra without disabling SIP

Plagiarism of code by other PhD student

Meaning of word ягоза

3.5% Interest Student Loan or use all of my savings on Tuition?

Rationale to prefer local variables over instance variables?

Are small insurances worth it

Sometimes a banana is just a banana

Are there other characters in the Star Wars universe who had damaged bodies and needed to wear an outfit like Darth Vader?



Why are special aircraft used for the carriers in the United States Navy?


What are the advantages of the angled flight deck layout used by some aircraft carriers?Has the United States Air Force used Contra-rotating Propeller Aircraft?Why are min and max temperatures (TN TX) not published in TAFs in the United States?Why do naval jet aircraft need to have strengthened undercarriages?Do carrier-less militaries retain the equipment for carrier operations?Were WW2 American fighters designed to operate from dirt airstrips?Do U.S. aircraft carriers still include a Marine Corps squadron?How much extra weight is added by strengthening a piston-prop fighter for carrier landings?Is is possible to have an aircraft launched from a submarine or directly from under the water?What changes are needed for a piston-prop aircraft to withstand saltwater environment?













11












$begingroup$


Why are aircraft such as the legacy F-14 and now the F/A-18 used by the US Navy carriers?



It seems to me that developing a new aircraft from the ground up is very expensive. Is it not possible to have converted F-16 or F-15's for carrier operations? Obvious modifications such as folding wings, stronger undercarriage, hook, etc. I'm sure there are many more I'm not aware of.



Is the reason that these aircraft (F-16, F-15) are not suitable for carrier operations, even with modifications?



Isn't this what the Russian Navy did with their fighters? The carrier versions of the MiG-29 and Su-27?



What are the reasons the US employs unique carrier aircraft? Is the reason political? Technical?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The Navy prefers twin engine aircraft, so the F-16 is out, but Vought developed the idea as the Vought 1600. The F-15 was also explored as the F-15N "Sea Eagle". Ultimately the F-15N-PHX was too heavy to be a carrier operations aircraft. By that time the F-14 was much better suited to carrier ops and was selected over the problems with the F-15N.
    $endgroup$
    – Ron Beyer
    yesterday








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    If you think those aircraft are expensive, check out the price tag on the F-35.
    $endgroup$
    – Robusto
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    The first thing to do when examining apparent inconsistencies in US defence procurement is to look at which companies (and hence states) have secured the contracts. Most fighter jets require additional compartments to fit in all of the pork barrels.
    $endgroup$
    – Richard
    15 hours ago


















11












$begingroup$


Why are aircraft such as the legacy F-14 and now the F/A-18 used by the US Navy carriers?



It seems to me that developing a new aircraft from the ground up is very expensive. Is it not possible to have converted F-16 or F-15's for carrier operations? Obvious modifications such as folding wings, stronger undercarriage, hook, etc. I'm sure there are many more I'm not aware of.



Is the reason that these aircraft (F-16, F-15) are not suitable for carrier operations, even with modifications?



Isn't this what the Russian Navy did with their fighters? The carrier versions of the MiG-29 and Su-27?



What are the reasons the US employs unique carrier aircraft? Is the reason political? Technical?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The Navy prefers twin engine aircraft, so the F-16 is out, but Vought developed the idea as the Vought 1600. The F-15 was also explored as the F-15N "Sea Eagle". Ultimately the F-15N-PHX was too heavy to be a carrier operations aircraft. By that time the F-14 was much better suited to carrier ops and was selected over the problems with the F-15N.
    $endgroup$
    – Ron Beyer
    yesterday








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    If you think those aircraft are expensive, check out the price tag on the F-35.
    $endgroup$
    – Robusto
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    The first thing to do when examining apparent inconsistencies in US defence procurement is to look at which companies (and hence states) have secured the contracts. Most fighter jets require additional compartments to fit in all of the pork barrels.
    $endgroup$
    – Richard
    15 hours ago
















11












11








11





$begingroup$


Why are aircraft such as the legacy F-14 and now the F/A-18 used by the US Navy carriers?



It seems to me that developing a new aircraft from the ground up is very expensive. Is it not possible to have converted F-16 or F-15's for carrier operations? Obvious modifications such as folding wings, stronger undercarriage, hook, etc. I'm sure there are many more I'm not aware of.



Is the reason that these aircraft (F-16, F-15) are not suitable for carrier operations, even with modifications?



Isn't this what the Russian Navy did with their fighters? The carrier versions of the MiG-29 and Su-27?



What are the reasons the US employs unique carrier aircraft? Is the reason political? Technical?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Why are aircraft such as the legacy F-14 and now the F/A-18 used by the US Navy carriers?



It seems to me that developing a new aircraft from the ground up is very expensive. Is it not possible to have converted F-16 or F-15's for carrier operations? Obvious modifications such as folding wings, stronger undercarriage, hook, etc. I'm sure there are many more I'm not aware of.



Is the reason that these aircraft (F-16, F-15) are not suitable for carrier operations, even with modifications?



Isn't this what the Russian Navy did with their fighters? The carrier versions of the MiG-29 and Su-27?



What are the reasons the US employs unique carrier aircraft? Is the reason political? Technical?







aircraft-design military usa fighter aircraft-carrier






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago









Rodrigo de Azevedo

7221519




7221519










asked yesterday









AlphaCentauriAlphaCentauri

333310




333310












  • $begingroup$
    The Navy prefers twin engine aircraft, so the F-16 is out, but Vought developed the idea as the Vought 1600. The F-15 was also explored as the F-15N "Sea Eagle". Ultimately the F-15N-PHX was too heavy to be a carrier operations aircraft. By that time the F-14 was much better suited to carrier ops and was selected over the problems with the F-15N.
    $endgroup$
    – Ron Beyer
    yesterday








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    If you think those aircraft are expensive, check out the price tag on the F-35.
    $endgroup$
    – Robusto
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    The first thing to do when examining apparent inconsistencies in US defence procurement is to look at which companies (and hence states) have secured the contracts. Most fighter jets require additional compartments to fit in all of the pork barrels.
    $endgroup$
    – Richard
    15 hours ago




















  • $begingroup$
    The Navy prefers twin engine aircraft, so the F-16 is out, but Vought developed the idea as the Vought 1600. The F-15 was also explored as the F-15N "Sea Eagle". Ultimately the F-15N-PHX was too heavy to be a carrier operations aircraft. By that time the F-14 was much better suited to carrier ops and was selected over the problems with the F-15N.
    $endgroup$
    – Ron Beyer
    yesterday








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    If you think those aircraft are expensive, check out the price tag on the F-35.
    $endgroup$
    – Robusto
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    The first thing to do when examining apparent inconsistencies in US defence procurement is to look at which companies (and hence states) have secured the contracts. Most fighter jets require additional compartments to fit in all of the pork barrels.
    $endgroup$
    – Richard
    15 hours ago


















$begingroup$
The Navy prefers twin engine aircraft, so the F-16 is out, but Vought developed the idea as the Vought 1600. The F-15 was also explored as the F-15N "Sea Eagle". Ultimately the F-15N-PHX was too heavy to be a carrier operations aircraft. By that time the F-14 was much better suited to carrier ops and was selected over the problems with the F-15N.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
yesterday






$begingroup$
The Navy prefers twin engine aircraft, so the F-16 is out, but Vought developed the idea as the Vought 1600. The F-15 was also explored as the F-15N "Sea Eagle". Ultimately the F-15N-PHX was too heavy to be a carrier operations aircraft. By that time the F-14 was much better suited to carrier ops and was selected over the problems with the F-15N.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
yesterday






3




3




$begingroup$
If you think those aircraft are expensive, check out the price tag on the F-35.
$endgroup$
– Robusto
yesterday




$begingroup$
If you think those aircraft are expensive, check out the price tag on the F-35.
$endgroup$
– Robusto
yesterday












$begingroup$
The first thing to do when examining apparent inconsistencies in US defence procurement is to look at which companies (and hence states) have secured the contracts. Most fighter jets require additional compartments to fit in all of the pork barrels.
$endgroup$
– Richard
15 hours ago






$begingroup$
The first thing to do when examining apparent inconsistencies in US defence procurement is to look at which companies (and hence states) have secured the contracts. Most fighter jets require additional compartments to fit in all of the pork barrels.
$endgroup$
– Richard
15 hours ago












4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















33












$begingroup$

It's technical, not political



The F-35 was an attempt to do exactly what you propose, lowering costs by planned sharing of 80% of parts across variants, but it turns out that the USN's F-35C costs over twice as much as the USAF's F-35A, and only shares 20-25% of it's parts. The project has been a disaster practically since day one, and the services are already working on separate replacements tailored from the start for their very different missions.



Per Wikipedia, the USN decided a carrier variant of the F-15 would be too expensive and the YF-16 was inherently not suitable for carriers, so they modified the YF-17 into the F/A-18 by making the changes you propose. The USAF didn't need those changes, so they stuck with the faster and cheaper YF-16, which became the F-16.



Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them. That sort of volume means the USN can afford to customize planes for their exact needs, whereas other countries with far smaller carrier fleets may be forced to make do with planes that the USN considers "unsuitable" or "too expensive", especially if they aren't US allies.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 10




    $begingroup$
    "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." I had no idea. That is insane. And awesome. :)
    $endgroup$
    – X-27
    yesterday






  • 19




    $begingroup$
    "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." Not true, I think. US carriers each carry about 75 aircraft (fixed wing and helicopters) as a maximum. That would make each carrier about the eightieth largest air force in the world (similar to Sri Lanka or Turkmenistan), not fourth. (various sources, including globalfirepower.com/aircraft-total.asp )
    $endgroup$
    – Party Ark
    19 hours ago








  • 9




    $begingroup$
    Fair point. Here's a list of countries by fixed wing combat aircraft. nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Military/Air-force/… - which would still put an aircraft carrier (including helicopters) somewhere around Venezuela at #50. The point is, the original claim is a very long way from the truth.
    $endgroup$
    – Party Ark
    18 hours ago








  • 12




    $begingroup$
    @GiuPiete Consider whatever you want. The USAF, Russia, China and the UK are going to have more of them than a single US carrier, so the carrier can't be better than 5th place. Now include France, Germany, Italy, ... The "fourth largest" claim is total nonsense.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    17 hours ago






  • 8




    $begingroup$
    This source claims that the 4th largest airforce is India's, at ~1,080. And if the US has 10 carriers, then dividing that up, we'd get about 108 aircraft per carrier - which is a bit high, but ballpark. Given that that's close-ish, I'd guess that the statistic might be that the US aircraft carriers cumulatively match the world's fourth-largest airforce, rather than individually.
    $endgroup$
    – Nat
    12 hours ago





















13












$begingroup$

The YF-17 is the answer to your question. It is the predecessor to the F/A-18, and was designed as a land-based fighter. The YF-17 is much lighter than the F/A-18, because it does not need to carry equipment for carrier landings. Adding this equipment makes the aircraft heavier, compromising performance. You then need to compensate for the added weight, but the airframe may not have space for different engines or additional fuel.



Overall there are just so many changes to be made, that as StephenS points out with the F-35, you don't end up saving money by having a few things in common.



There is a saying: "Jack of all trades, master of none." That is, if you design something to be useful in all situations, it will not excel at any of them.



The F-4 Phantom did do the reverse, starting as a Naval aircraft before later also being adopted by the USAF and USMC.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Yeah, I think the simple answer is really just "They tried it and found it doesn't work."
    $endgroup$
    – Jörg W Mittag
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Like the F-4, lot of countries without carriers use carrier-optimized fighters. Canada uses F/A-18 fighters, because the two engines make it safer to get back from sea patrols. Iran uses F-14 Tomcats because they can't buy newer stuff due to embargo. Neither of these operate or plan to operate CVs. Switzerland is even landlocked (with a handful of F/A-18s)!
    $endgroup$
    – Nyos
    18 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/ch-luftwaffe-fa-18.htm
    $endgroup$
    – Giu Piete
    15 hours ago



















4












$begingroup$

The needs to operate on a carrier are different than the needs for a land based aircraft. They are subtle, but significant. As others have pointed out, the F-35 attempted to address these issues and wound up way over budget. (It was made even more complicated by the addition of a STOVL version for the Marines, the F-35B).



CATOBAR aircraft differ from conventional aircraft in subtle, but very important ways. Takeoff and landing on a carrier is significantly different. Its landing gear must be significantly strengthened to handle the "controlled crash" of landing on a carrier deck, and the sharp deceleration of the arresting cable, and the sharp acceleration of the catapult when taking off. It needs a strong arresting hook to snag the cables on landing. The engines can't melt the carrier deck or blast shields on takeoff.



The short flight deck and tricky approach requires a lower landing speed, and better low speed handling requiring a significantly larger wing area. This also gives more lift to keep the same cruising range despite all that extra weight.



The limited space on a carrier often requires folding wings, the joints must be able to handle all the stresses of combat maneuvering. More weight and more complexity.



The aircraft must be able to be maintained and repaired while at sea with the stores and equipment available to a carrier. It must be resistant to salt water, particularly hard if you're using advanced skins to reduce radar cross-section. The limited storage space means it ideally has to share the same fuel and weapons and other consumables with other carrier aircraft.



Finally there are self-inflicted inter-service incompatibilities. The US Navy and Air Force use different aerial refueling systems requiring different parts and plumbing.





Most navies look at all these extra requirements (and weight, always weight) and are satisfied with lower performance, usually lower takeoff and landing weights meaning less fuel and less stores. For example, ski-jumps like on the Admiral Kuznetsov are simpler and cheaper than catapults and reduce the strain on the aircraft making conversion to naval simpler, but they limit the takeoff speed and weight of the aircraft. Better to have some sort of fixed-wing air capability within their budget than none.



The US Navy doesn't have any of that. They want a naval aircraft that is the equal or better than land based aircraft. That comes at a cost in weight, money, and complexity.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Generally spot on, but the USN/USMC aerial refueling, probe-and-drogue, is the system used by most of the world's air forces, including Russia, China, NATO, USAF and USA helicopters. The flying-boom USAF system is only used by USAF, Australia, the Netherlands, Israel, Turkey, and Iran.
    $endgroup$
    – K7AAY
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @K7AAY Oop, you are correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Schwern
    9 hours ago



















0












$begingroup$

Another reason that carrier aircraft tend to be quite different from land based aircraft is the environment in which they operate: lots of salt. Consequently, carrier aircraft contain a much greater degree of corrosion resistant components, raising the price and in some cases the weight.



Several naval aircraft have been adopted by land air forces. The USAF and several other air forces adopted the F4 Phantom. USAF also used the A1 Skyraider. Several land based air forces have used the US A4 Skyhawk and F18 Hornet in a land based role. The Hawker Sea Fury was used by Iraq in the 1950's and 1960's. The Philippines operated F8 Crusaders as land based aircraft in the 1980's.



Land based aircraft designs have been adopted for carrier use, albeit with major changes. The Supermarine Seafire was a conversion of the Spifire. In the US, the F86 Sabre was produced in a naval variant, the FJ2/3/4 Fury. The Russian MIG29 has been produced in a naval variant for operation on their carrier. The previously mentioned Hawker Sea Fury was an adaptation of the Hawker Tempest land based fighter.



Plus a couple of desperation measures: The Hawker Hurricane was used at sea on the CAM merchant ships to defend against FW200 Kondor aircraft, but that was a one time use only with no ability to land at sea, and the pilot was often lost in the frigid North Atlantic waters. Plus the one time use of B25 bombers from the USS Hornet.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













    Your Answer





    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
    return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
    StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
    StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
    });
    });
    }, "mathjax-editing");

    StackExchange.ready(function() {
    var channelOptions = {
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "528"
    };
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
    createEditor();
    });
    }
    else {
    createEditor();
    }
    });

    function createEditor() {
    StackExchange.prepareEditor({
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader: {
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    },
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    });


    }
    });














    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function () {
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f60777%2fwhy-are-special-aircraft-used-for-the-carriers-in-the-united-states-navy%23new-answer', 'question_page');
    }
    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes








    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    33












    $begingroup$

    It's technical, not political



    The F-35 was an attempt to do exactly what you propose, lowering costs by planned sharing of 80% of parts across variants, but it turns out that the USN's F-35C costs over twice as much as the USAF's F-35A, and only shares 20-25% of it's parts. The project has been a disaster practically since day one, and the services are already working on separate replacements tailored from the start for their very different missions.



    Per Wikipedia, the USN decided a carrier variant of the F-15 would be too expensive and the YF-16 was inherently not suitable for carriers, so they modified the YF-17 into the F/A-18 by making the changes you propose. The USAF didn't need those changes, so they stuck with the faster and cheaper YF-16, which became the F-16.



    Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them. That sort of volume means the USN can afford to customize planes for their exact needs, whereas other countries with far smaller carrier fleets may be forced to make do with planes that the USN considers "unsuitable" or "too expensive", especially if they aren't US allies.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$









    • 10




      $begingroup$
      "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." I had no idea. That is insane. And awesome. :)
      $endgroup$
      – X-27
      yesterday






    • 19




      $begingroup$
      "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." Not true, I think. US carriers each carry about 75 aircraft (fixed wing and helicopters) as a maximum. That would make each carrier about the eightieth largest air force in the world (similar to Sri Lanka or Turkmenistan), not fourth. (various sources, including globalfirepower.com/aircraft-total.asp )
      $endgroup$
      – Party Ark
      19 hours ago








    • 9




      $begingroup$
      Fair point. Here's a list of countries by fixed wing combat aircraft. nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Military/Air-force/… - which would still put an aircraft carrier (including helicopters) somewhere around Venezuela at #50. The point is, the original claim is a very long way from the truth.
      $endgroup$
      – Party Ark
      18 hours ago








    • 12




      $begingroup$
      @GiuPiete Consider whatever you want. The USAF, Russia, China and the UK are going to have more of them than a single US carrier, so the carrier can't be better than 5th place. Now include France, Germany, Italy, ... The "fourth largest" claim is total nonsense.
      $endgroup$
      – David Richerby
      17 hours ago






    • 8




      $begingroup$
      This source claims that the 4th largest airforce is India's, at ~1,080. And if the US has 10 carriers, then dividing that up, we'd get about 108 aircraft per carrier - which is a bit high, but ballpark. Given that that's close-ish, I'd guess that the statistic might be that the US aircraft carriers cumulatively match the world's fourth-largest airforce, rather than individually.
      $endgroup$
      – Nat
      12 hours ago


















    33












    $begingroup$

    It's technical, not political



    The F-35 was an attempt to do exactly what you propose, lowering costs by planned sharing of 80% of parts across variants, but it turns out that the USN's F-35C costs over twice as much as the USAF's F-35A, and only shares 20-25% of it's parts. The project has been a disaster practically since day one, and the services are already working on separate replacements tailored from the start for their very different missions.



    Per Wikipedia, the USN decided a carrier variant of the F-15 would be too expensive and the YF-16 was inherently not suitable for carriers, so they modified the YF-17 into the F/A-18 by making the changes you propose. The USAF didn't need those changes, so they stuck with the faster and cheaper YF-16, which became the F-16.



    Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them. That sort of volume means the USN can afford to customize planes for their exact needs, whereas other countries with far smaller carrier fleets may be forced to make do with planes that the USN considers "unsuitable" or "too expensive", especially if they aren't US allies.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$









    • 10




      $begingroup$
      "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." I had no idea. That is insane. And awesome. :)
      $endgroup$
      – X-27
      yesterday






    • 19




      $begingroup$
      "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." Not true, I think. US carriers each carry about 75 aircraft (fixed wing and helicopters) as a maximum. That would make each carrier about the eightieth largest air force in the world (similar to Sri Lanka or Turkmenistan), not fourth. (various sources, including globalfirepower.com/aircraft-total.asp )
      $endgroup$
      – Party Ark
      19 hours ago








    • 9




      $begingroup$
      Fair point. Here's a list of countries by fixed wing combat aircraft. nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Military/Air-force/… - which would still put an aircraft carrier (including helicopters) somewhere around Venezuela at #50. The point is, the original claim is a very long way from the truth.
      $endgroup$
      – Party Ark
      18 hours ago








    • 12




      $begingroup$
      @GiuPiete Consider whatever you want. The USAF, Russia, China and the UK are going to have more of them than a single US carrier, so the carrier can't be better than 5th place. Now include France, Germany, Italy, ... The "fourth largest" claim is total nonsense.
      $endgroup$
      – David Richerby
      17 hours ago






    • 8




      $begingroup$
      This source claims that the 4th largest airforce is India's, at ~1,080. And if the US has 10 carriers, then dividing that up, we'd get about 108 aircraft per carrier - which is a bit high, but ballpark. Given that that's close-ish, I'd guess that the statistic might be that the US aircraft carriers cumulatively match the world's fourth-largest airforce, rather than individually.
      $endgroup$
      – Nat
      12 hours ago
















    33












    33








    33





    $begingroup$

    It's technical, not political



    The F-35 was an attempt to do exactly what you propose, lowering costs by planned sharing of 80% of parts across variants, but it turns out that the USN's F-35C costs over twice as much as the USAF's F-35A, and only shares 20-25% of it's parts. The project has been a disaster practically since day one, and the services are already working on separate replacements tailored from the start for their very different missions.



    Per Wikipedia, the USN decided a carrier variant of the F-15 would be too expensive and the YF-16 was inherently not suitable for carriers, so they modified the YF-17 into the F/A-18 by making the changes you propose. The USAF didn't need those changes, so they stuck with the faster and cheaper YF-16, which became the F-16.



    Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them. That sort of volume means the USN can afford to customize planes for their exact needs, whereas other countries with far smaller carrier fleets may be forced to make do with planes that the USN considers "unsuitable" or "too expensive", especially if they aren't US allies.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    It's technical, not political



    The F-35 was an attempt to do exactly what you propose, lowering costs by planned sharing of 80% of parts across variants, but it turns out that the USN's F-35C costs over twice as much as the USAF's F-35A, and only shares 20-25% of it's parts. The project has been a disaster practically since day one, and the services are already working on separate replacements tailored from the start for their very different missions.



    Per Wikipedia, the USN decided a carrier variant of the F-15 would be too expensive and the YF-16 was inherently not suitable for carriers, so they modified the YF-17 into the F/A-18 by making the changes you propose. The USAF didn't need those changes, so they stuck with the faster and cheaper YF-16, which became the F-16.



    Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them. That sort of volume means the USN can afford to customize planes for their exact needs, whereas other countries with far smaller carrier fleets may be forced to make do with planes that the USN considers "unsuitable" or "too expensive", especially if they aren't US allies.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited yesterday









    KorvinStarmast

    2,7691227




    2,7691227










    answered yesterday









    StephenSStephenS

    3,8551625




    3,8551625








    • 10




      $begingroup$
      "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." I had no idea. That is insane. And awesome. :)
      $endgroup$
      – X-27
      yesterday






    • 19




      $begingroup$
      "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." Not true, I think. US carriers each carry about 75 aircraft (fixed wing and helicopters) as a maximum. That would make each carrier about the eightieth largest air force in the world (similar to Sri Lanka or Turkmenistan), not fourth. (various sources, including globalfirepower.com/aircraft-total.asp )
      $endgroup$
      – Party Ark
      19 hours ago








    • 9




      $begingroup$
      Fair point. Here's a list of countries by fixed wing combat aircraft. nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Military/Air-force/… - which would still put an aircraft carrier (including helicopters) somewhere around Venezuela at #50. The point is, the original claim is a very long way from the truth.
      $endgroup$
      – Party Ark
      18 hours ago








    • 12




      $begingroup$
      @GiuPiete Consider whatever you want. The USAF, Russia, China and the UK are going to have more of them than a single US carrier, so the carrier can't be better than 5th place. Now include France, Germany, Italy, ... The "fourth largest" claim is total nonsense.
      $endgroup$
      – David Richerby
      17 hours ago






    • 8




      $begingroup$
      This source claims that the 4th largest airforce is India's, at ~1,080. And if the US has 10 carriers, then dividing that up, we'd get about 108 aircraft per carrier - which is a bit high, but ballpark. Given that that's close-ish, I'd guess that the statistic might be that the US aircraft carriers cumulatively match the world's fourth-largest airforce, rather than individually.
      $endgroup$
      – Nat
      12 hours ago
















    • 10




      $begingroup$
      "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." I had no idea. That is insane. And awesome. :)
      $endgroup$
      – X-27
      yesterday






    • 19




      $begingroup$
      "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." Not true, I think. US carriers each carry about 75 aircraft (fixed wing and helicopters) as a maximum. That would make each carrier about the eightieth largest air force in the world (similar to Sri Lanka or Turkmenistan), not fourth. (various sources, including globalfirepower.com/aircraft-total.asp )
      $endgroup$
      – Party Ark
      19 hours ago








    • 9




      $begingroup$
      Fair point. Here's a list of countries by fixed wing combat aircraft. nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Military/Air-force/… - which would still put an aircraft carrier (including helicopters) somewhere around Venezuela at #50. The point is, the original claim is a very long way from the truth.
      $endgroup$
      – Party Ark
      18 hours ago








    • 12




      $begingroup$
      @GiuPiete Consider whatever you want. The USAF, Russia, China and the UK are going to have more of them than a single US carrier, so the carrier can't be better than 5th place. Now include France, Germany, Italy, ... The "fourth largest" claim is total nonsense.
      $endgroup$
      – David Richerby
      17 hours ago






    • 8




      $begingroup$
      This source claims that the 4th largest airforce is India's, at ~1,080. And if the US has 10 carriers, then dividing that up, we'd get about 108 aircraft per carrier - which is a bit high, but ballpark. Given that that's close-ish, I'd guess that the statistic might be that the US aircraft carriers cumulatively match the world's fourth-largest airforce, rather than individually.
      $endgroup$
      – Nat
      12 hours ago










    10




    10




    $begingroup$
    "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." I had no idea. That is insane. And awesome. :)
    $endgroup$
    – X-27
    yesterday




    $begingroup$
    "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." I had no idea. That is insane. And awesome. :)
    $endgroup$
    – X-27
    yesterday




    19




    19




    $begingroup$
    "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." Not true, I think. US carriers each carry about 75 aircraft (fixed wing and helicopters) as a maximum. That would make each carrier about the eightieth largest air force in the world (similar to Sri Lanka or Turkmenistan), not fourth. (various sources, including globalfirepower.com/aircraft-total.asp )
    $endgroup$
    – Party Ark
    19 hours ago






    $begingroup$
    "Keep in mind that each US aircraft carrier holds the fourth largest air force in the world, and there are ten of them." Not true, I think. US carriers each carry about 75 aircraft (fixed wing and helicopters) as a maximum. That would make each carrier about the eightieth largest air force in the world (similar to Sri Lanka or Turkmenistan), not fourth. (various sources, including globalfirepower.com/aircraft-total.asp )
    $endgroup$
    – Party Ark
    19 hours ago






    9




    9




    $begingroup$
    Fair point. Here's a list of countries by fixed wing combat aircraft. nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Military/Air-force/… - which would still put an aircraft carrier (including helicopters) somewhere around Venezuela at #50. The point is, the original claim is a very long way from the truth.
    $endgroup$
    – Party Ark
    18 hours ago






    $begingroup$
    Fair point. Here's a list of countries by fixed wing combat aircraft. nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Military/Air-force/… - which would still put an aircraft carrier (including helicopters) somewhere around Venezuela at #50. The point is, the original claim is a very long way from the truth.
    $endgroup$
    – Party Ark
    18 hours ago






    12




    12




    $begingroup$
    @GiuPiete Consider whatever you want. The USAF, Russia, China and the UK are going to have more of them than a single US carrier, so the carrier can't be better than 5th place. Now include France, Germany, Italy, ... The "fourth largest" claim is total nonsense.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    17 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @GiuPiete Consider whatever you want. The USAF, Russia, China and the UK are going to have more of them than a single US carrier, so the carrier can't be better than 5th place. Now include France, Germany, Italy, ... The "fourth largest" claim is total nonsense.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    17 hours ago




    8




    8




    $begingroup$
    This source claims that the 4th largest airforce is India's, at ~1,080. And if the US has 10 carriers, then dividing that up, we'd get about 108 aircraft per carrier - which is a bit high, but ballpark. Given that that's close-ish, I'd guess that the statistic might be that the US aircraft carriers cumulatively match the world's fourth-largest airforce, rather than individually.
    $endgroup$
    – Nat
    12 hours ago






    $begingroup$
    This source claims that the 4th largest airforce is India's, at ~1,080. And if the US has 10 carriers, then dividing that up, we'd get about 108 aircraft per carrier - which is a bit high, but ballpark. Given that that's close-ish, I'd guess that the statistic might be that the US aircraft carriers cumulatively match the world's fourth-largest airforce, rather than individually.
    $endgroup$
    – Nat
    12 hours ago













    13












    $begingroup$

    The YF-17 is the answer to your question. It is the predecessor to the F/A-18, and was designed as a land-based fighter. The YF-17 is much lighter than the F/A-18, because it does not need to carry equipment for carrier landings. Adding this equipment makes the aircraft heavier, compromising performance. You then need to compensate for the added weight, but the airframe may not have space for different engines or additional fuel.



    Overall there are just so many changes to be made, that as StephenS points out with the F-35, you don't end up saving money by having a few things in common.



    There is a saying: "Jack of all trades, master of none." That is, if you design something to be useful in all situations, it will not excel at any of them.



    The F-4 Phantom did do the reverse, starting as a Naval aircraft before later also being adopted by the USAF and USMC.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 5




      $begingroup$
      Yeah, I think the simple answer is really just "They tried it and found it doesn't work."
      $endgroup$
      – Jörg W Mittag
      yesterday






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Like the F-4, lot of countries without carriers use carrier-optimized fighters. Canada uses F/A-18 fighters, because the two engines make it safer to get back from sea patrols. Iran uses F-14 Tomcats because they can't buy newer stuff due to embargo. Neither of these operate or plan to operate CVs. Switzerland is even landlocked (with a handful of F/A-18s)!
      $endgroup$
      – Nyos
      18 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/ch-luftwaffe-fa-18.htm
      $endgroup$
      – Giu Piete
      15 hours ago
















    13












    $begingroup$

    The YF-17 is the answer to your question. It is the predecessor to the F/A-18, and was designed as a land-based fighter. The YF-17 is much lighter than the F/A-18, because it does not need to carry equipment for carrier landings. Adding this equipment makes the aircraft heavier, compromising performance. You then need to compensate for the added weight, but the airframe may not have space for different engines or additional fuel.



    Overall there are just so many changes to be made, that as StephenS points out with the F-35, you don't end up saving money by having a few things in common.



    There is a saying: "Jack of all trades, master of none." That is, if you design something to be useful in all situations, it will not excel at any of them.



    The F-4 Phantom did do the reverse, starting as a Naval aircraft before later also being adopted by the USAF and USMC.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 5




      $begingroup$
      Yeah, I think the simple answer is really just "They tried it and found it doesn't work."
      $endgroup$
      – Jörg W Mittag
      yesterday






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Like the F-4, lot of countries without carriers use carrier-optimized fighters. Canada uses F/A-18 fighters, because the two engines make it safer to get back from sea patrols. Iran uses F-14 Tomcats because they can't buy newer stuff due to embargo. Neither of these operate or plan to operate CVs. Switzerland is even landlocked (with a handful of F/A-18s)!
      $endgroup$
      – Nyos
      18 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/ch-luftwaffe-fa-18.htm
      $endgroup$
      – Giu Piete
      15 hours ago














    13












    13








    13





    $begingroup$

    The YF-17 is the answer to your question. It is the predecessor to the F/A-18, and was designed as a land-based fighter. The YF-17 is much lighter than the F/A-18, because it does not need to carry equipment for carrier landings. Adding this equipment makes the aircraft heavier, compromising performance. You then need to compensate for the added weight, but the airframe may not have space for different engines or additional fuel.



    Overall there are just so many changes to be made, that as StephenS points out with the F-35, you don't end up saving money by having a few things in common.



    There is a saying: "Jack of all trades, master of none." That is, if you design something to be useful in all situations, it will not excel at any of them.



    The F-4 Phantom did do the reverse, starting as a Naval aircraft before later also being adopted by the USAF and USMC.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    The YF-17 is the answer to your question. It is the predecessor to the F/A-18, and was designed as a land-based fighter. The YF-17 is much lighter than the F/A-18, because it does not need to carry equipment for carrier landings. Adding this equipment makes the aircraft heavier, compromising performance. You then need to compensate for the added weight, but the airframe may not have space for different engines or additional fuel.



    Overall there are just so many changes to be made, that as StephenS points out with the F-35, you don't end up saving money by having a few things in common.



    There is a saying: "Jack of all trades, master of none." That is, if you design something to be useful in all situations, it will not excel at any of them.



    The F-4 Phantom did do the reverse, starting as a Naval aircraft before later also being adopted by the USAF and USMC.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered yesterday









    zymhanzymhan

    513112




    513112








    • 5




      $begingroup$
      Yeah, I think the simple answer is really just "They tried it and found it doesn't work."
      $endgroup$
      – Jörg W Mittag
      yesterday






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Like the F-4, lot of countries without carriers use carrier-optimized fighters. Canada uses F/A-18 fighters, because the two engines make it safer to get back from sea patrols. Iran uses F-14 Tomcats because they can't buy newer stuff due to embargo. Neither of these operate or plan to operate CVs. Switzerland is even landlocked (with a handful of F/A-18s)!
      $endgroup$
      – Nyos
      18 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/ch-luftwaffe-fa-18.htm
      $endgroup$
      – Giu Piete
      15 hours ago














    • 5




      $begingroup$
      Yeah, I think the simple answer is really just "They tried it and found it doesn't work."
      $endgroup$
      – Jörg W Mittag
      yesterday






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Like the F-4, lot of countries without carriers use carrier-optimized fighters. Canada uses F/A-18 fighters, because the two engines make it safer to get back from sea patrols. Iran uses F-14 Tomcats because they can't buy newer stuff due to embargo. Neither of these operate or plan to operate CVs. Switzerland is even landlocked (with a handful of F/A-18s)!
      $endgroup$
      – Nyos
      18 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/ch-luftwaffe-fa-18.htm
      $endgroup$
      – Giu Piete
      15 hours ago








    5




    5




    $begingroup$
    Yeah, I think the simple answer is really just "They tried it and found it doesn't work."
    $endgroup$
    – Jörg W Mittag
    yesterday




    $begingroup$
    Yeah, I think the simple answer is really just "They tried it and found it doesn't work."
    $endgroup$
    – Jörg W Mittag
    yesterday




    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    Like the F-4, lot of countries without carriers use carrier-optimized fighters. Canada uses F/A-18 fighters, because the two engines make it safer to get back from sea patrols. Iran uses F-14 Tomcats because they can't buy newer stuff due to embargo. Neither of these operate or plan to operate CVs. Switzerland is even landlocked (with a handful of F/A-18s)!
    $endgroup$
    – Nyos
    18 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Like the F-4, lot of countries without carriers use carrier-optimized fighters. Canada uses F/A-18 fighters, because the two engines make it safer to get back from sea patrols. Iran uses F-14 Tomcats because they can't buy newer stuff due to embargo. Neither of these operate or plan to operate CVs. Switzerland is even landlocked (with a handful of F/A-18s)!
    $endgroup$
    – Nyos
    18 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/ch-luftwaffe-fa-18.htm
    $endgroup$
    – Giu Piete
    15 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/ch-luftwaffe-fa-18.htm
    $endgroup$
    – Giu Piete
    15 hours ago











    4












    $begingroup$

    The needs to operate on a carrier are different than the needs for a land based aircraft. They are subtle, but significant. As others have pointed out, the F-35 attempted to address these issues and wound up way over budget. (It was made even more complicated by the addition of a STOVL version for the Marines, the F-35B).



    CATOBAR aircraft differ from conventional aircraft in subtle, but very important ways. Takeoff and landing on a carrier is significantly different. Its landing gear must be significantly strengthened to handle the "controlled crash" of landing on a carrier deck, and the sharp deceleration of the arresting cable, and the sharp acceleration of the catapult when taking off. It needs a strong arresting hook to snag the cables on landing. The engines can't melt the carrier deck or blast shields on takeoff.



    The short flight deck and tricky approach requires a lower landing speed, and better low speed handling requiring a significantly larger wing area. This also gives more lift to keep the same cruising range despite all that extra weight.



    The limited space on a carrier often requires folding wings, the joints must be able to handle all the stresses of combat maneuvering. More weight and more complexity.



    The aircraft must be able to be maintained and repaired while at sea with the stores and equipment available to a carrier. It must be resistant to salt water, particularly hard if you're using advanced skins to reduce radar cross-section. The limited storage space means it ideally has to share the same fuel and weapons and other consumables with other carrier aircraft.



    Finally there are self-inflicted inter-service incompatibilities. The US Navy and Air Force use different aerial refueling systems requiring different parts and plumbing.





    Most navies look at all these extra requirements (and weight, always weight) and are satisfied with lower performance, usually lower takeoff and landing weights meaning less fuel and less stores. For example, ski-jumps like on the Admiral Kuznetsov are simpler and cheaper than catapults and reduce the strain on the aircraft making conversion to naval simpler, but they limit the takeoff speed and weight of the aircraft. Better to have some sort of fixed-wing air capability within their budget than none.



    The US Navy doesn't have any of that. They want a naval aircraft that is the equal or better than land based aircraft. That comes at a cost in weight, money, and complexity.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Generally spot on, but the USN/USMC aerial refueling, probe-and-drogue, is the system used by most of the world's air forces, including Russia, China, NATO, USAF and USA helicopters. The flying-boom USAF system is only used by USAF, Australia, the Netherlands, Israel, Turkey, and Iran.
      $endgroup$
      – K7AAY
      9 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @K7AAY Oop, you are correct.
      $endgroup$
      – Schwern
      9 hours ago
















    4












    $begingroup$

    The needs to operate on a carrier are different than the needs for a land based aircraft. They are subtle, but significant. As others have pointed out, the F-35 attempted to address these issues and wound up way over budget. (It was made even more complicated by the addition of a STOVL version for the Marines, the F-35B).



    CATOBAR aircraft differ from conventional aircraft in subtle, but very important ways. Takeoff and landing on a carrier is significantly different. Its landing gear must be significantly strengthened to handle the "controlled crash" of landing on a carrier deck, and the sharp deceleration of the arresting cable, and the sharp acceleration of the catapult when taking off. It needs a strong arresting hook to snag the cables on landing. The engines can't melt the carrier deck or blast shields on takeoff.



    The short flight deck and tricky approach requires a lower landing speed, and better low speed handling requiring a significantly larger wing area. This also gives more lift to keep the same cruising range despite all that extra weight.



    The limited space on a carrier often requires folding wings, the joints must be able to handle all the stresses of combat maneuvering. More weight and more complexity.



    The aircraft must be able to be maintained and repaired while at sea with the stores and equipment available to a carrier. It must be resistant to salt water, particularly hard if you're using advanced skins to reduce radar cross-section. The limited storage space means it ideally has to share the same fuel and weapons and other consumables with other carrier aircraft.



    Finally there are self-inflicted inter-service incompatibilities. The US Navy and Air Force use different aerial refueling systems requiring different parts and plumbing.





    Most navies look at all these extra requirements (and weight, always weight) and are satisfied with lower performance, usually lower takeoff and landing weights meaning less fuel and less stores. For example, ski-jumps like on the Admiral Kuznetsov are simpler and cheaper than catapults and reduce the strain on the aircraft making conversion to naval simpler, but they limit the takeoff speed and weight of the aircraft. Better to have some sort of fixed-wing air capability within their budget than none.



    The US Navy doesn't have any of that. They want a naval aircraft that is the equal or better than land based aircraft. That comes at a cost in weight, money, and complexity.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Generally spot on, but the USN/USMC aerial refueling, probe-and-drogue, is the system used by most of the world's air forces, including Russia, China, NATO, USAF and USA helicopters. The flying-boom USAF system is only used by USAF, Australia, the Netherlands, Israel, Turkey, and Iran.
      $endgroup$
      – K7AAY
      9 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @K7AAY Oop, you are correct.
      $endgroup$
      – Schwern
      9 hours ago














    4












    4








    4





    $begingroup$

    The needs to operate on a carrier are different than the needs for a land based aircraft. They are subtle, but significant. As others have pointed out, the F-35 attempted to address these issues and wound up way over budget. (It was made even more complicated by the addition of a STOVL version for the Marines, the F-35B).



    CATOBAR aircraft differ from conventional aircraft in subtle, but very important ways. Takeoff and landing on a carrier is significantly different. Its landing gear must be significantly strengthened to handle the "controlled crash" of landing on a carrier deck, and the sharp deceleration of the arresting cable, and the sharp acceleration of the catapult when taking off. It needs a strong arresting hook to snag the cables on landing. The engines can't melt the carrier deck or blast shields on takeoff.



    The short flight deck and tricky approach requires a lower landing speed, and better low speed handling requiring a significantly larger wing area. This also gives more lift to keep the same cruising range despite all that extra weight.



    The limited space on a carrier often requires folding wings, the joints must be able to handle all the stresses of combat maneuvering. More weight and more complexity.



    The aircraft must be able to be maintained and repaired while at sea with the stores and equipment available to a carrier. It must be resistant to salt water, particularly hard if you're using advanced skins to reduce radar cross-section. The limited storage space means it ideally has to share the same fuel and weapons and other consumables with other carrier aircraft.



    Finally there are self-inflicted inter-service incompatibilities. The US Navy and Air Force use different aerial refueling systems requiring different parts and plumbing.





    Most navies look at all these extra requirements (and weight, always weight) and are satisfied with lower performance, usually lower takeoff and landing weights meaning less fuel and less stores. For example, ski-jumps like on the Admiral Kuznetsov are simpler and cheaper than catapults and reduce the strain on the aircraft making conversion to naval simpler, but they limit the takeoff speed and weight of the aircraft. Better to have some sort of fixed-wing air capability within their budget than none.



    The US Navy doesn't have any of that. They want a naval aircraft that is the equal or better than land based aircraft. That comes at a cost in weight, money, and complexity.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    The needs to operate on a carrier are different than the needs for a land based aircraft. They are subtle, but significant. As others have pointed out, the F-35 attempted to address these issues and wound up way over budget. (It was made even more complicated by the addition of a STOVL version for the Marines, the F-35B).



    CATOBAR aircraft differ from conventional aircraft in subtle, but very important ways. Takeoff and landing on a carrier is significantly different. Its landing gear must be significantly strengthened to handle the "controlled crash" of landing on a carrier deck, and the sharp deceleration of the arresting cable, and the sharp acceleration of the catapult when taking off. It needs a strong arresting hook to snag the cables on landing. The engines can't melt the carrier deck or blast shields on takeoff.



    The short flight deck and tricky approach requires a lower landing speed, and better low speed handling requiring a significantly larger wing area. This also gives more lift to keep the same cruising range despite all that extra weight.



    The limited space on a carrier often requires folding wings, the joints must be able to handle all the stresses of combat maneuvering. More weight and more complexity.



    The aircraft must be able to be maintained and repaired while at sea with the stores and equipment available to a carrier. It must be resistant to salt water, particularly hard if you're using advanced skins to reduce radar cross-section. The limited storage space means it ideally has to share the same fuel and weapons and other consumables with other carrier aircraft.



    Finally there are self-inflicted inter-service incompatibilities. The US Navy and Air Force use different aerial refueling systems requiring different parts and plumbing.





    Most navies look at all these extra requirements (and weight, always weight) and are satisfied with lower performance, usually lower takeoff and landing weights meaning less fuel and less stores. For example, ski-jumps like on the Admiral Kuznetsov are simpler and cheaper than catapults and reduce the strain on the aircraft making conversion to naval simpler, but they limit the takeoff speed and weight of the aircraft. Better to have some sort of fixed-wing air capability within their budget than none.



    The US Navy doesn't have any of that. They want a naval aircraft that is the equal or better than land based aircraft. That comes at a cost in weight, money, and complexity.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 9 hours ago

























    answered 10 hours ago









    SchwernSchwern

    64439




    64439












    • $begingroup$
      Generally spot on, but the USN/USMC aerial refueling, probe-and-drogue, is the system used by most of the world's air forces, including Russia, China, NATO, USAF and USA helicopters. The flying-boom USAF system is only used by USAF, Australia, the Netherlands, Israel, Turkey, and Iran.
      $endgroup$
      – K7AAY
      9 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @K7AAY Oop, you are correct.
      $endgroup$
      – Schwern
      9 hours ago


















    • $begingroup$
      Generally spot on, but the USN/USMC aerial refueling, probe-and-drogue, is the system used by most of the world's air forces, including Russia, China, NATO, USAF and USA helicopters. The flying-boom USAF system is only used by USAF, Australia, the Netherlands, Israel, Turkey, and Iran.
      $endgroup$
      – K7AAY
      9 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @K7AAY Oop, you are correct.
      $endgroup$
      – Schwern
      9 hours ago
















    $begingroup$
    Generally spot on, but the USN/USMC aerial refueling, probe-and-drogue, is the system used by most of the world's air forces, including Russia, China, NATO, USAF and USA helicopters. The flying-boom USAF system is only used by USAF, Australia, the Netherlands, Israel, Turkey, and Iran.
    $endgroup$
    – K7AAY
    9 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Generally spot on, but the USN/USMC aerial refueling, probe-and-drogue, is the system used by most of the world's air forces, including Russia, China, NATO, USAF and USA helicopters. The flying-boom USAF system is only used by USAF, Australia, the Netherlands, Israel, Turkey, and Iran.
    $endgroup$
    – K7AAY
    9 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @K7AAY Oop, you are correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Schwern
    9 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @K7AAY Oop, you are correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Schwern
    9 hours ago











    0












    $begingroup$

    Another reason that carrier aircraft tend to be quite different from land based aircraft is the environment in which they operate: lots of salt. Consequently, carrier aircraft contain a much greater degree of corrosion resistant components, raising the price and in some cases the weight.



    Several naval aircraft have been adopted by land air forces. The USAF and several other air forces adopted the F4 Phantom. USAF also used the A1 Skyraider. Several land based air forces have used the US A4 Skyhawk and F18 Hornet in a land based role. The Hawker Sea Fury was used by Iraq in the 1950's and 1960's. The Philippines operated F8 Crusaders as land based aircraft in the 1980's.



    Land based aircraft designs have been adopted for carrier use, albeit with major changes. The Supermarine Seafire was a conversion of the Spifire. In the US, the F86 Sabre was produced in a naval variant, the FJ2/3/4 Fury. The Russian MIG29 has been produced in a naval variant for operation on their carrier. The previously mentioned Hawker Sea Fury was an adaptation of the Hawker Tempest land based fighter.



    Plus a couple of desperation measures: The Hawker Hurricane was used at sea on the CAM merchant ships to defend against FW200 Kondor aircraft, but that was a one time use only with no ability to land at sea, and the pilot was often lost in the frigid North Atlantic waters. Plus the one time use of B25 bombers from the USS Hornet.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      0












      $begingroup$

      Another reason that carrier aircraft tend to be quite different from land based aircraft is the environment in which they operate: lots of salt. Consequently, carrier aircraft contain a much greater degree of corrosion resistant components, raising the price and in some cases the weight.



      Several naval aircraft have been adopted by land air forces. The USAF and several other air forces adopted the F4 Phantom. USAF also used the A1 Skyraider. Several land based air forces have used the US A4 Skyhawk and F18 Hornet in a land based role. The Hawker Sea Fury was used by Iraq in the 1950's and 1960's. The Philippines operated F8 Crusaders as land based aircraft in the 1980's.



      Land based aircraft designs have been adopted for carrier use, albeit with major changes. The Supermarine Seafire was a conversion of the Spifire. In the US, the F86 Sabre was produced in a naval variant, the FJ2/3/4 Fury. The Russian MIG29 has been produced in a naval variant for operation on their carrier. The previously mentioned Hawker Sea Fury was an adaptation of the Hawker Tempest land based fighter.



      Plus a couple of desperation measures: The Hawker Hurricane was used at sea on the CAM merchant ships to defend against FW200 Kondor aircraft, but that was a one time use only with no ability to land at sea, and the pilot was often lost in the frigid North Atlantic waters. Plus the one time use of B25 bombers from the USS Hornet.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        0












        0








        0





        $begingroup$

        Another reason that carrier aircraft tend to be quite different from land based aircraft is the environment in which they operate: lots of salt. Consequently, carrier aircraft contain a much greater degree of corrosion resistant components, raising the price and in some cases the weight.



        Several naval aircraft have been adopted by land air forces. The USAF and several other air forces adopted the F4 Phantom. USAF also used the A1 Skyraider. Several land based air forces have used the US A4 Skyhawk and F18 Hornet in a land based role. The Hawker Sea Fury was used by Iraq in the 1950's and 1960's. The Philippines operated F8 Crusaders as land based aircraft in the 1980's.



        Land based aircraft designs have been adopted for carrier use, albeit with major changes. The Supermarine Seafire was a conversion of the Spifire. In the US, the F86 Sabre was produced in a naval variant, the FJ2/3/4 Fury. The Russian MIG29 has been produced in a naval variant for operation on their carrier. The previously mentioned Hawker Sea Fury was an adaptation of the Hawker Tempest land based fighter.



        Plus a couple of desperation measures: The Hawker Hurricane was used at sea on the CAM merchant ships to defend against FW200 Kondor aircraft, but that was a one time use only with no ability to land at sea, and the pilot was often lost in the frigid North Atlantic waters. Plus the one time use of B25 bombers from the USS Hornet.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        Another reason that carrier aircraft tend to be quite different from land based aircraft is the environment in which they operate: lots of salt. Consequently, carrier aircraft contain a much greater degree of corrosion resistant components, raising the price and in some cases the weight.



        Several naval aircraft have been adopted by land air forces. The USAF and several other air forces adopted the F4 Phantom. USAF also used the A1 Skyraider. Several land based air forces have used the US A4 Skyhawk and F18 Hornet in a land based role. The Hawker Sea Fury was used by Iraq in the 1950's and 1960's. The Philippines operated F8 Crusaders as land based aircraft in the 1980's.



        Land based aircraft designs have been adopted for carrier use, albeit with major changes. The Supermarine Seafire was a conversion of the Spifire. In the US, the F86 Sabre was produced in a naval variant, the FJ2/3/4 Fury. The Russian MIG29 has been produced in a naval variant for operation on their carrier. The previously mentioned Hawker Sea Fury was an adaptation of the Hawker Tempest land based fighter.



        Plus a couple of desperation measures: The Hawker Hurricane was used at sea on the CAM merchant ships to defend against FW200 Kondor aircraft, but that was a one time use only with no ability to land at sea, and the pilot was often lost in the frigid North Atlantic waters. Plus the one time use of B25 bombers from the USS Hornet.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 1 hour ago









        tj1000tj1000

        6,637932




        6,637932






























            draft saved

            draft discarded




















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Aviation Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid



            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f60777%2fwhy-are-special-aircraft-used-for-the-carriers-in-the-united-states-navy%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            El tren de la libertad Índice Antecedentes "Porque yo decido" Desarrollo de la...

            Castillo d'Acher Características Menú de navegación

            Connecting two nodes from the same mother node horizontallyTikZ: What EXACTLY does the the |- notation for...