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Multi wire circuit or 2 separate 120V 20A dedicated circuits?
What is a tandem breaker (aka duplex, cheater, twin, double-stuff, etc.)?Multi-circuit transients without breaker trip240v double pole breaker for two 120v circuitsWhy would a 120v circuit work without a neutral?Does adding new dedicated circuits involve new breakers at the panel?Max wattage on 120v outlet on 20A 80% breaker on 3 phase120/240 Multi wire branch circuit - failed inspection because of uneven loads?How are tandem breakers used in multi-branch circuits?20A home circuit breaker stuck in “TRIPPED” stateIs this 240V outlet undersized?Sub-panel tapped from aluminum feed in Duplex
I'm planning to purchase a portable indoor infrared sauna and locate it outdoors under my deck. The sauna will require a dedicated 120V 20A outlet. I'm wondering if it makes sense to install a multi-branched circuit rather than 2 separate circuits. (I would like an additional outlet so won't have to unplug the sauna anytime I needed power for other applications). This would require a twin 20A breaker at the main panel and 12-3 wire run in the crawl space to the receptacle near the sauna. My thought was if I were to decide to convert to a 240V 40A outlet in the future (ie upgrade to a 240V outdoor sauna), then couldn't I still use the existing wiring and simply change the twin breaker to a double pole?
Since this outlet will be located on the exterior of the house, I'm assuming that the receptacle should be GFCI, is this correct?
electrical-panel 120-240v
asked 2 hours ago
GrantGrant
13119
add a comment |
I'm planning to purchase a portable indoor infrared sauna and locate it outdoors under my deck. The sauna will require a dedicated 120V 20A outlet. I'm wondering if it makes sense to install a multi-branched circuit rather than 2 separate circuits. (I would like an additional outlet so won't have to unplug the sauna anytime I needed power for other applications). This would require a twin 20A breaker at the main panel and 12-3 wire run in the crawl space to the receptacle near the sauna. My thought was if I were to decide to convert to a 240V 40A outlet in the future (ie upgrade to a 240V outdoor sauna), then couldn't I still use the existing wiring and simply change the twin breaker to a double pole?
Since this outlet will be located on the exterior of the house, I'm assuming that the receptacle should be GFCI, is this correct?
electrical-panel 120-240v
asked 2 hours ago
GrantGrant
13119
1
Sweet Lord, you cannot use a twin/duplex/tandem breaker for an MWBC! You must use a 2-pole!!! A twin overloads the neutral, and if you have put in any like that, plese go back and fixt them Right Now.
– Harper
2 hours ago
A good read on the requirements and pitfalls of an MWBC: inspectapedia.com/electric/Multi-Wire-Electrical-Circuits.php
– isherwood
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I'm planning to purchase a portable indoor infrared sauna and locate it outdoors under my deck. The sauna will require a dedicated 120V 20A outlet. I'm wondering if it makes sense to install a multi-branched circuit rather than 2 separate circuits. (I would like an additional outlet so won't have to unplug the sauna anytime I needed power for other applications). This would require a twin 20A breaker at the main panel and 12-3 wire run in the crawl space to the receptacle near the sauna. My thought was if I were to decide to convert to a 240V 40A outlet in the future (ie upgrade to a 240V outdoor sauna), then couldn't I still use the existing wiring and simply change the twin breaker to a double pole?
Since this outlet will be located on the exterior of the house, I'm assuming that the receptacle should be GFCI, is this correct?
electrical-panel 120-240v
asked 2 hours ago
GrantGrant
13119
I'm planning to purchase a portable indoor infrared sauna and locate it outdoors under my deck. The sauna will require a dedicated 120V 20A outlet. I'm wondering if it makes sense to install a multi-branched circuit rather than 2 separate circuits. (I would like an additional outlet so won't have to unplug the sauna anytime I needed power for other applications). This would require a twin 20A breaker at the main panel and 12-3 wire run in the crawl space to the receptacle near the sauna. My thought was if I were to decide to convert to a 240V 40A outlet in the future (ie upgrade to a 240V outdoor sauna), then couldn't I still use the existing wiring and simply change the twin breaker to a double pole?
Since this outlet will be located on the exterior of the house, I'm assuming that the receptacle should be GFCI, is this correct?
electrical-panel 120-240v
electrical-panel 120-240v
asked 2 hours ago
GrantGrant
13119
asked 2 hours ago
GrantGrant
13119
asked 2 hours ago
GrantGrant
13119
asked 2 hours ago
GrantGrant
13119
asked 2 hours ago
GrantGrant
13119
13119
1
Sweet Lord, you cannot use a twin/duplex/tandem breaker for an MWBC! You must use a 2-pole!!! A twin overloads the neutral, and if you have put in any like that, plese go back and fixt them Right Now.
– Harper
2 hours ago
A good read on the requirements and pitfalls of an MWBC: inspectapedia.com/electric/Multi-Wire-Electrical-Circuits.php
– isherwood
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1
Sweet Lord, you cannot use a twin/duplex/tandem breaker for an MWBC! You must use a 2-pole!!! A twin overloads the neutral, and if you have put in any like that, plese go back and fixt them Right Now.
– Harper
2 hours ago
A good read on the requirements and pitfalls of an MWBC: inspectapedia.com/electric/Multi-Wire-Electrical-Circuits.php
– isherwood
1 hour ago
1
1
Sweet Lord, you cannot use a twin/duplex/tandem breaker for an MWBC! You must use a 2-pole!!! A twin overloads the neutral, and if you have put in any like that, plese go back and fixt them Right Now.
– Harper
2 hours ago
Sweet Lord, you cannot use a twin/duplex/tandem breaker for an MWBC! You must use a 2-pole!!! A twin overloads the neutral, and if you have put in any like that, plese go back and fixt them Right Now.
– Harper
2 hours ago
A good read on the requirements and pitfalls of an MWBC: inspectapedia.com/electric/Multi-Wire-Electrical-Circuits.php
– isherwood
1 hour ago
A good read on the requirements and pitfalls of an MWBC: inspectapedia.com/electric/Multi-Wire-Electrical-Circuits.php
– isherwood
1 hour ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
MWBCs must be on a 2-pole breaker, never ever a twin! Measure between the two hots, that must always read 240V. If it reads 0V, you are overloading the neutral.
What you want to do is easy enough, though. Run yourself an 8/3 or 6/3 cable. In the service panel, land it on a 20A 2-pole breaker.
At the other end, bring it into a large box such as a 4-11/16 square deep box at the location where you would want that outlet. Then bring into that box your two 20A subcircuits, on 12 AWG wire. All the whites get wirenutted together, then black #6/8 to one of the #12 blacks, and red to the other black. Continue the #12 cables on to your outlet locations.
If you ever fit the sauna, you'll need to abandon the MWBC. You can't put 15/20A receptacles on a 40A circuit unless you fit a subpanel here. However if you think you might fit a subpanel, run #6 wire. That will easily support the sauna and the 20A circuits at once.
answered 1 hour ago
HarperHarper
72.7k448147
This is how I would suggest to do it also, so many folks try and save a few bucks even knowing there is a possibility of future updates I have redone 1 job 3 times for a customer the 3rd time it was what I had suggested the first time.(much like this plan) a little extra now saves time and $$$ later.+
– Ed Beal
11 mins ago
add a comment |
As mentioned in the comment, you must use a two pole breaker for a multiwire branch circuit.
You won't be able to use the 12 gauge wire suitable for a 20A circuit with a 40A circuit. You could run oversized wire now but you'd lose your receptacles.
Usually the best bet for future flexibility is conduit, not oversized wires / cables.
answered 1 hour ago
batsplatstersonbatsplatsterson
12.9k11538
If the op ran large wire now he could still have a receptacle but will have to pigtail at the breaker and receptacle. But you are correct 12 gauge won't work as planned.
– Ed Beal
18 mins ago
add a comment |
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MWBCs must be on a 2-pole breaker, never ever a twin! Measure between the two hots, that must always read 240V. If it reads 0V, you are overloading the neutral.
What you want to do is easy enough, though. Run yourself an 8/3 or 6/3 cable. In the service panel, land it on a 20A 2-pole breaker.
At the other end, bring it into a large box such as a 4-11/16 square deep box at the location where you would want that outlet. Then bring into that box your two 20A subcircuits, on 12 AWG wire. All the whites get wirenutted together, then black #6/8 to one of the #12 blacks, and red to the other black. Continue the #12 cables on to your outlet locations.
If you ever fit the sauna, you'll need to abandon the MWBC. You can't put 15/20A receptacles on a 40A circuit unless you fit a subpanel here. However if you think you might fit a subpanel, run #6 wire. That will easily support the sauna and the 20A circuits at once.
answered 1 hour ago
HarperHarper
72.7k448147
This is how I would suggest to do it also, so many folks try and save a few bucks even knowing there is a possibility of future updates I have redone 1 job 3 times for a customer the 3rd time it was what I had suggested the first time.(much like this plan) a little extra now saves time and $$$ later.+
– Ed Beal
11 mins ago
add a comment |
MWBCs must be on a 2-pole breaker, never ever a twin! Measure between the two hots, that must always read 240V. If it reads 0V, you are overloading the neutral.
What you want to do is easy enough, though. Run yourself an 8/3 or 6/3 cable. In the service panel, land it on a 20A 2-pole breaker.
At the other end, bring it into a large box such as a 4-11/16 square deep box at the location where you would want that outlet. Then bring into that box your two 20A subcircuits, on 12 AWG wire. All the whites get wirenutted together, then black #6/8 to one of the #12 blacks, and red to the other black. Continue the #12 cables on to your outlet locations.
If you ever fit the sauna, you'll need to abandon the MWBC. You can't put 15/20A receptacles on a 40A circuit unless you fit a subpanel here. However if you think you might fit a subpanel, run #6 wire. That will easily support the sauna and the 20A circuits at once.
answered 1 hour ago
HarperHarper
72.7k448147
This is how I would suggest to do it also, so many folks try and save a few bucks even knowing there is a possibility of future updates I have redone 1 job 3 times for a customer the 3rd time it was what I had suggested the first time.(much like this plan) a little extra now saves time and $$$ later.+
– Ed Beal
11 mins ago
add a comment |
MWBCs must be on a 2-pole breaker, never ever a twin! Measure between the two hots, that must always read 240V. If it reads 0V, you are overloading the neutral.
What you want to do is easy enough, though. Run yourself an 8/3 or 6/3 cable. In the service panel, land it on a 20A 2-pole breaker.
At the other end, bring it into a large box such as a 4-11/16 square deep box at the location where you would want that outlet. Then bring into that box your two 20A subcircuits, on 12 AWG wire. All the whites get wirenutted together, then black #6/8 to one of the #12 blacks, and red to the other black. Continue the #12 cables on to your outlet locations.
If you ever fit the sauna, you'll need to abandon the MWBC. You can't put 15/20A receptacles on a 40A circuit unless you fit a subpanel here. However if you think you might fit a subpanel, run #6 wire. That will easily support the sauna and the 20A circuits at once.
answered 1 hour ago
HarperHarper
72.7k448147
MWBCs must be on a 2-pole breaker, never ever a twin! Measure between the two hots, that must always read 240V. If it reads 0V, you are overloading the neutral.
What you want to do is easy enough, though. Run yourself an 8/3 or 6/3 cable. In the service panel, land it on a 20A 2-pole breaker.
At the other end, bring it into a large box such as a 4-11/16 square deep box at the location where you would want that outlet. Then bring into that box your two 20A subcircuits, on 12 AWG wire. All the whites get wirenutted together, then black #6/8 to one of the #12 blacks, and red to the other black. Continue the #12 cables on to your outlet locations.
If you ever fit the sauna, you'll need to abandon the MWBC. You can't put 15/20A receptacles on a 40A circuit unless you fit a subpanel here. However if you think you might fit a subpanel, run #6 wire. That will easily support the sauna and the 20A circuits at once.
answered 1 hour ago
HarperHarper
72.7k448147
answered 1 hour ago
HarperHarper
72.7k448147
answered 1 hour ago
HarperHarper
72.7k448147
answered 1 hour ago
HarperHarper
72.7k448147
72.7k448147
This is how I would suggest to do it also, so many folks try and save a few bucks even knowing there is a possibility of future updates I have redone 1 job 3 times for a customer the 3rd time it was what I had suggested the first time.(much like this plan) a little extra now saves time and $$$ later.+
– Ed Beal
11 mins ago
add a comment |
This is how I would suggest to do it also, so many folks try and save a few bucks even knowing there is a possibility of future updates I have redone 1 job 3 times for a customer the 3rd time it was what I had suggested the first time.(much like this plan) a little extra now saves time and $$$ later.+
– Ed Beal
11 mins ago
This is how I would suggest to do it also, so many folks try and save a few bucks even knowing there is a possibility of future updates I have redone 1 job 3 times for a customer the 3rd time it was what I had suggested the first time.(much like this plan) a little extra now saves time and $$$ later.+
– Ed Beal
11 mins ago
This is how I would suggest to do it also, so many folks try and save a few bucks even knowing there is a possibility of future updates I have redone 1 job 3 times for a customer the 3rd time it was what I had suggested the first time.(much like this plan) a little extra now saves time and $$$ later.+
– Ed Beal
11 mins ago
add a comment |
As mentioned in the comment, you must use a two pole breaker for a multiwire branch circuit.
You won't be able to use the 12 gauge wire suitable for a 20A circuit with a 40A circuit. You could run oversized wire now but you'd lose your receptacles.
Usually the best bet for future flexibility is conduit, not oversized wires / cables.
answered 1 hour ago
batsplatstersonbatsplatsterson
12.9k11538
If the op ran large wire now he could still have a receptacle but will have to pigtail at the breaker and receptacle. But you are correct 12 gauge won't work as planned.
– Ed Beal
18 mins ago
add a comment |
As mentioned in the comment, you must use a two pole breaker for a multiwire branch circuit.
You won't be able to use the 12 gauge wire suitable for a 20A circuit with a 40A circuit. You could run oversized wire now but you'd lose your receptacles.
Usually the best bet for future flexibility is conduit, not oversized wires / cables.
answered 1 hour ago
batsplatstersonbatsplatsterson
12.9k11538
If the op ran large wire now he could still have a receptacle but will have to pigtail at the breaker and receptacle. But you are correct 12 gauge won't work as planned.
– Ed Beal
18 mins ago
add a comment |
As mentioned in the comment, you must use a two pole breaker for a multiwire branch circuit.
You won't be able to use the 12 gauge wire suitable for a 20A circuit with a 40A circuit. You could run oversized wire now but you'd lose your receptacles.
Usually the best bet for future flexibility is conduit, not oversized wires / cables.
answered 1 hour ago
batsplatstersonbatsplatsterson
12.9k11538
As mentioned in the comment, you must use a two pole breaker for a multiwire branch circuit.
You won't be able to use the 12 gauge wire suitable for a 20A circuit with a 40A circuit. You could run oversized wire now but you'd lose your receptacles.
Usually the best bet for future flexibility is conduit, not oversized wires / cables.
answered 1 hour ago
batsplatstersonbatsplatsterson
12.9k11538
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
batsplatstersonbatsplatsterson
12.9k11538
answered 1 hour ago
batsplatstersonbatsplatsterson
12.9k11538
answered 1 hour ago
batsplatstersonbatsplatsterson
12.9k11538
12.9k11538
If the op ran large wire now he could still have a receptacle but will have to pigtail at the breaker and receptacle. But you are correct 12 gauge won't work as planned.
– Ed Beal
18 mins ago
add a comment |
If the op ran large wire now he could still have a receptacle but will have to pigtail at the breaker and receptacle. But you are correct 12 gauge won't work as planned.
– Ed Beal
18 mins ago
If the op ran large wire now he could still have a receptacle but will have to pigtail at the breaker and receptacle. But you are correct 12 gauge won't work as planned.
– Ed Beal
18 mins ago
If the op ran large wire now he could still have a receptacle but will have to pigtail at the breaker and receptacle. But you are correct 12 gauge won't work as planned.
– Ed Beal
18 mins ago
add a comment |
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1
Sweet Lord, you cannot use a twin/duplex/tandem breaker for an MWBC! You must use a 2-pole!!! A twin overloads the neutral, and if you have put in any like that, plese go back and fixt them Right Now.
– Harper
2 hours ago
A good read on the requirements and pitfalls of an MWBC: inspectapedia.com/electric/Multi-Wire-Electrical-Circuits.php
– isherwood
1 hour ago