Character Optimization: Shillelagh Whirlwind Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast? ...

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Character Optimization: Shillelagh Whirlwind



Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar ManaraEpic 3.5 Warblade OptimizationOptimizing Riddick BuildOptimal martial ranged non-human level 15 build for DPR/SurvivalWhat is the most DPR possible at level 1?Optimized DPR at 10th to 13th level for a Vengeance PaladinFor Druid 2/ Sorcerer 4 “midfielder”, is the feat Polearm Master, Dual Wielding, Charger, or Savage Attacker most damaging in combat?How can I build an effective whip fighter?Is this a time to choose minimum damage per hit over average DPR?How do flat modifiers (like those from magic weapons) affect DPR comparison in GWF vs TWF?Does this low-Str/low-Dex idea for a Fighter work out?





.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}







8












$begingroup$


I'd like to optimize my character concept:



I want my main damage source to be a Shillelagh'd weapon and squeeze that source for all it's worth.



Table character limitations:




  • Character is level 5

  • Point buy for level 1 ability scores

  • No multiclassing allowed

  • Variant Humans and Duergar are banned

  • Each character gets a free feat at level 1, provided they qualify for that feat at level 1

  • All official sources are allowed and can be mixed, but UA is only allowed on a per case basis (so preferably not used), no homebrew


Optimization Goals:




  • Highest average damage per round possible, using Shillelagh

  • Secondary goal is highest effective number of hit points, assuming a well mixed pool of damage sources


Bonus points for:




  • Not using UA

  • Actually having a use for my Wisdom score besides whacking with Shillelagh


So far I have:




  • Hill dwarf for the juicy Con and Wis + free HP

  • Go Fighter, archetype Champion for extra attack DPR and heavy armor + shield + armored fighting style

  • Take Magic Initiate feat level 1 for Shillelagh + absorb elements

  • Pump Wis with ASI










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Why the close vote? Question seems clear enough
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    3 hours ago


















8












$begingroup$


I'd like to optimize my character concept:



I want my main damage source to be a Shillelagh'd weapon and squeeze that source for all it's worth.



Table character limitations:




  • Character is level 5

  • Point buy for level 1 ability scores

  • No multiclassing allowed

  • Variant Humans and Duergar are banned

  • Each character gets a free feat at level 1, provided they qualify for that feat at level 1

  • All official sources are allowed and can be mixed, but UA is only allowed on a per case basis (so preferably not used), no homebrew


Optimization Goals:




  • Highest average damage per round possible, using Shillelagh

  • Secondary goal is highest effective number of hit points, assuming a well mixed pool of damage sources


Bonus points for:




  • Not using UA

  • Actually having a use for my Wisdom score besides whacking with Shillelagh


So far I have:




  • Hill dwarf for the juicy Con and Wis + free HP

  • Go Fighter, archetype Champion for extra attack DPR and heavy armor + shield + armored fighting style

  • Take Magic Initiate feat level 1 for Shillelagh + absorb elements

  • Pump Wis with ASI










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Why the close vote? Question seems clear enough
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    3 hours ago














8












8








8





$begingroup$


I'd like to optimize my character concept:



I want my main damage source to be a Shillelagh'd weapon and squeeze that source for all it's worth.



Table character limitations:




  • Character is level 5

  • Point buy for level 1 ability scores

  • No multiclassing allowed

  • Variant Humans and Duergar are banned

  • Each character gets a free feat at level 1, provided they qualify for that feat at level 1

  • All official sources are allowed and can be mixed, but UA is only allowed on a per case basis (so preferably not used), no homebrew


Optimization Goals:




  • Highest average damage per round possible, using Shillelagh

  • Secondary goal is highest effective number of hit points, assuming a well mixed pool of damage sources


Bonus points for:




  • Not using UA

  • Actually having a use for my Wisdom score besides whacking with Shillelagh


So far I have:




  • Hill dwarf for the juicy Con and Wis + free HP

  • Go Fighter, archetype Champion for extra attack DPR and heavy armor + shield + armored fighting style

  • Take Magic Initiate feat level 1 for Shillelagh + absorb elements

  • Pump Wis with ASI










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




I'd like to optimize my character concept:



I want my main damage source to be a Shillelagh'd weapon and squeeze that source for all it's worth.



Table character limitations:




  • Character is level 5

  • Point buy for level 1 ability scores

  • No multiclassing allowed

  • Variant Humans and Duergar are banned

  • Each character gets a free feat at level 1, provided they qualify for that feat at level 1

  • All official sources are allowed and can be mixed, but UA is only allowed on a per case basis (so preferably not used), no homebrew


Optimization Goals:




  • Highest average damage per round possible, using Shillelagh

  • Secondary goal is highest effective number of hit points, assuming a well mixed pool of damage sources


Bonus points for:




  • Not using UA

  • Actually having a use for my Wisdom score besides whacking with Shillelagh


So far I have:




  • Hill dwarf for the juicy Con and Wis + free HP

  • Go Fighter, archetype Champion for extra attack DPR and heavy armor + shield + armored fighting style

  • Take Magic Initiate feat level 1 for Shillelagh + absorb elements

  • Pump Wis with ASI







dnd-5e character-creation optimization damage cantrips






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago









V2Blast

27.8k598169




27.8k598169










asked 5 hours ago









DonFusiliDonFusili

788413




788413








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Why the close vote? Question seems clear enough
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    3 hours ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Why the close vote? Question seems clear enough
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    3 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
Why the close vote? Question seems clear enough
$endgroup$
– BlueMoon93
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
Why the close vote? Question seems clear enough
$endgroup$
– BlueMoon93
3 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$

Hunter Ranger



Combat-wise, you get:




  • Dueling fighting style

  • Extra Attack, Hunter's Prey (your pick)

  • Spells (like Hunter's Mark)


You also get Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer and non-combat spells, for utility. Assuming you have cast Shillelagh, Hunter's Mark (at level 5, you can do this 6 times a day) and chosen Colossus Slayer, this means you make 3d8+2d6+4+WIS*2 when you land both your attacks on a single-target.



Compared with the Fighter, you lose some AC (medium-armor only), but you may not have disadvantage on Stealth checks, depending on which armor you choose to use. You also lose Second Wind and Action Surge (each once per short rest), and Improved Critical. I haven't done the math for Champion, but I think at level 5 you can out-DPR it as a Hunter Ranger.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
    $endgroup$
    – NathanS
    2 hours ago








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
    $endgroup$
    – Szega
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    1 hour ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
    $endgroup$
    – Alk
    41 mins ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
    $endgroup$
    – NathanS
    5 mins ago





















2












$begingroup$

As an alternative to a generic anything-with-Extra-Attack-answer:



Draconic Sorcerer 5.



Benefits:
Twinned Green Flame Blade, allowing you to set your stick on fire and bash two people at once for 1d8 (bludgeoning) + 1d8 (fire) + Wis-mod, and if those enemies are adjacent to each other they each take an extra 1d8 + Cha-mod fire.

Draconic Sorcerer gets an increased AC and extra health (stack it with Hill Dwarf to have an unreasonably healthy sorcerer).
Haste will allow you to get another stickbash out every turn, while ensuring your enemies can't flee from your stick.
Shield will give you a ton of survivability to stick around in melee.



The downside of this is a bit of multi-ability-dependency in the build, but there are plenty of sorcerer spells that don't use charisma at all - selecting those (haste, blink, mirror image, blur, etc..) allows you to go all in on the Wisdom-melee style.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$














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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    3












    $begingroup$

    Hunter Ranger



    Combat-wise, you get:




    • Dueling fighting style

    • Extra Attack, Hunter's Prey (your pick)

    • Spells (like Hunter's Mark)


    You also get Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer and non-combat spells, for utility. Assuming you have cast Shillelagh, Hunter's Mark (at level 5, you can do this 6 times a day) and chosen Colossus Slayer, this means you make 3d8+2d6+4+WIS*2 when you land both your attacks on a single-target.



    Compared with the Fighter, you lose some AC (medium-armor only), but you may not have disadvantage on Stealth checks, depending on which armor you choose to use. You also lose Second Wind and Action Surge (each once per short rest), and Improved Critical. I haven't done the math for Champion, but I think at level 5 you can out-DPR it as a Hunter Ranger.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$









    • 3




      $begingroup$
      "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      2 hours ago








    • 3




      $begingroup$
      The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
      $endgroup$
      – Szega
      1 hour ago










    • $begingroup$
      Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
      $endgroup$
      – BlueMoon93
      1 hour ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
      $endgroup$
      – Alk
      41 mins ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      5 mins ago


















    3












    $begingroup$

    Hunter Ranger



    Combat-wise, you get:




    • Dueling fighting style

    • Extra Attack, Hunter's Prey (your pick)

    • Spells (like Hunter's Mark)


    You also get Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer and non-combat spells, for utility. Assuming you have cast Shillelagh, Hunter's Mark (at level 5, you can do this 6 times a day) and chosen Colossus Slayer, this means you make 3d8+2d6+4+WIS*2 when you land both your attacks on a single-target.



    Compared with the Fighter, you lose some AC (medium-armor only), but you may not have disadvantage on Stealth checks, depending on which armor you choose to use. You also lose Second Wind and Action Surge (each once per short rest), and Improved Critical. I haven't done the math for Champion, but I think at level 5 you can out-DPR it as a Hunter Ranger.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$









    • 3




      $begingroup$
      "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      2 hours ago








    • 3




      $begingroup$
      The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
      $endgroup$
      – Szega
      1 hour ago










    • $begingroup$
      Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
      $endgroup$
      – BlueMoon93
      1 hour ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
      $endgroup$
      – Alk
      41 mins ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      5 mins ago
















    3












    3








    3





    $begingroup$

    Hunter Ranger



    Combat-wise, you get:




    • Dueling fighting style

    • Extra Attack, Hunter's Prey (your pick)

    • Spells (like Hunter's Mark)


    You also get Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer and non-combat spells, for utility. Assuming you have cast Shillelagh, Hunter's Mark (at level 5, you can do this 6 times a day) and chosen Colossus Slayer, this means you make 3d8+2d6+4+WIS*2 when you land both your attacks on a single-target.



    Compared with the Fighter, you lose some AC (medium-armor only), but you may not have disadvantage on Stealth checks, depending on which armor you choose to use. You also lose Second Wind and Action Surge (each once per short rest), and Improved Critical. I haven't done the math for Champion, but I think at level 5 you can out-DPR it as a Hunter Ranger.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    Hunter Ranger



    Combat-wise, you get:




    • Dueling fighting style

    • Extra Attack, Hunter's Prey (your pick)

    • Spells (like Hunter's Mark)


    You also get Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer and non-combat spells, for utility. Assuming you have cast Shillelagh, Hunter's Mark (at level 5, you can do this 6 times a day) and chosen Colossus Slayer, this means you make 3d8+2d6+4+WIS*2 when you land both your attacks on a single-target.



    Compared with the Fighter, you lose some AC (medium-armor only), but you may not have disadvantage on Stealth checks, depending on which armor you choose to use. You also lose Second Wind and Action Surge (each once per short rest), and Improved Critical. I haven't done the math for Champion, but I think at level 5 you can out-DPR it as a Hunter Ranger.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 1 hour ago

























    answered 2 hours ago









    BlueMoon93BlueMoon93

    16.5k1189158




    16.5k1189158








    • 3




      $begingroup$
      "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      2 hours ago








    • 3




      $begingroup$
      The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
      $endgroup$
      – Szega
      1 hour ago










    • $begingroup$
      Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
      $endgroup$
      – BlueMoon93
      1 hour ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
      $endgroup$
      – Alk
      41 mins ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      5 mins ago
















    • 3




      $begingroup$
      "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      2 hours ago








    • 3




      $begingroup$
      The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
      $endgroup$
      – Szega
      1 hour ago










    • $begingroup$
      Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
      $endgroup$
      – BlueMoon93
      1 hour ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
      $endgroup$
      – Alk
      41 mins ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      5 mins ago










    3




    3




    $begingroup$
    "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
    $endgroup$
    – NathanS
    2 hours ago






    $begingroup$
    "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
    $endgroup$
    – NathanS
    2 hours ago






    3




    3




    $begingroup$
    The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
    $endgroup$
    – Szega
    1 hour ago




    $begingroup$
    The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
    $endgroup$
    – Szega
    1 hour ago












    $begingroup$
    Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    1 hour ago






    $begingroup$
    Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    1 hour ago






    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
    $endgroup$
    – Alk
    41 mins ago




    $begingroup$
    Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
    $endgroup$
    – Alk
    41 mins ago












    $begingroup$
    @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
    $endgroup$
    – NathanS
    5 mins ago






    $begingroup$
    @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
    $endgroup$
    – NathanS
    5 mins ago















    2












    $begingroup$

    As an alternative to a generic anything-with-Extra-Attack-answer:



    Draconic Sorcerer 5.



    Benefits:
    Twinned Green Flame Blade, allowing you to set your stick on fire and bash two people at once for 1d8 (bludgeoning) + 1d8 (fire) + Wis-mod, and if those enemies are adjacent to each other they each take an extra 1d8 + Cha-mod fire.

    Draconic Sorcerer gets an increased AC and extra health (stack it with Hill Dwarf to have an unreasonably healthy sorcerer).
    Haste will allow you to get another stickbash out every turn, while ensuring your enemies can't flee from your stick.
    Shield will give you a ton of survivability to stick around in melee.



    The downside of this is a bit of multi-ability-dependency in the build, but there are plenty of sorcerer spells that don't use charisma at all - selecting those (haste, blink, mirror image, blur, etc..) allows you to go all in on the Wisdom-melee style.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      2












      $begingroup$

      As an alternative to a generic anything-with-Extra-Attack-answer:



      Draconic Sorcerer 5.



      Benefits:
      Twinned Green Flame Blade, allowing you to set your stick on fire and bash two people at once for 1d8 (bludgeoning) + 1d8 (fire) + Wis-mod, and if those enemies are adjacent to each other they each take an extra 1d8 + Cha-mod fire.

      Draconic Sorcerer gets an increased AC and extra health (stack it with Hill Dwarf to have an unreasonably healthy sorcerer).
      Haste will allow you to get another stickbash out every turn, while ensuring your enemies can't flee from your stick.
      Shield will give you a ton of survivability to stick around in melee.



      The downside of this is a bit of multi-ability-dependency in the build, but there are plenty of sorcerer spells that don't use charisma at all - selecting those (haste, blink, mirror image, blur, etc..) allows you to go all in on the Wisdom-melee style.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        As an alternative to a generic anything-with-Extra-Attack-answer:



        Draconic Sorcerer 5.



        Benefits:
        Twinned Green Flame Blade, allowing you to set your stick on fire and bash two people at once for 1d8 (bludgeoning) + 1d8 (fire) + Wis-mod, and if those enemies are adjacent to each other they each take an extra 1d8 + Cha-mod fire.

        Draconic Sorcerer gets an increased AC and extra health (stack it with Hill Dwarf to have an unreasonably healthy sorcerer).
        Haste will allow you to get another stickbash out every turn, while ensuring your enemies can't flee from your stick.
        Shield will give you a ton of survivability to stick around in melee.



        The downside of this is a bit of multi-ability-dependency in the build, but there are plenty of sorcerer spells that don't use charisma at all - selecting those (haste, blink, mirror image, blur, etc..) allows you to go all in on the Wisdom-melee style.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        As an alternative to a generic anything-with-Extra-Attack-answer:



        Draconic Sorcerer 5.



        Benefits:
        Twinned Green Flame Blade, allowing you to set your stick on fire and bash two people at once for 1d8 (bludgeoning) + 1d8 (fire) + Wis-mod, and if those enemies are adjacent to each other they each take an extra 1d8 + Cha-mod fire.

        Draconic Sorcerer gets an increased AC and extra health (stack it with Hill Dwarf to have an unreasonably healthy sorcerer).
        Haste will allow you to get another stickbash out every turn, while ensuring your enemies can't flee from your stick.
        Shield will give you a ton of survivability to stick around in melee.



        The downside of this is a bit of multi-ability-dependency in the build, but there are plenty of sorcerer spells that don't use charisma at all - selecting those (haste, blink, mirror image, blur, etc..) allows you to go all in on the Wisdom-melee style.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 33 mins ago









        SpeedkatSpeedkat

        3,933731




        3,933731






























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