Learning to quickly identify valid fingering for piano?Penciling in piano fingeringPiano fingeringPiano...

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Learning to quickly identify valid fingering for piano?


Penciling in piano fingeringPiano fingeringPiano Fingering 3 octavesFingering for piano runPiano: Beginner fingering questionPracticing Sight reading and Fingering on PianoFingering for modes on the pianoFingering for piano arpeggioPiano Fingering for JazzKnowing where to put hands without looking at the keyboard?













3















I have identified three main problems holding back my piano sight-reading, and this is the second biggest.



I can work out fingerings by trial and error, but some very experienced pianists just devise them on the fly without much thought. How can I get better at that?



I mostly play classical/romantic music like Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Liszt, and Scriabin, as well as transcriptions of modern songs and movie themes.










share|improve this question




















  • 1





    "I mostly play classical/romantic music like Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Liszt, and Scriabin" ...what kind of music are you sight reading? Those composers or other material? Do you use practice patterns, drills?

    – Michael Curtis
    4 hours ago


















3















I have identified three main problems holding back my piano sight-reading, and this is the second biggest.



I can work out fingerings by trial and error, but some very experienced pianists just devise them on the fly without much thought. How can I get better at that?



I mostly play classical/romantic music like Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Liszt, and Scriabin, as well as transcriptions of modern songs and movie themes.










share|improve this question




















  • 1





    "I mostly play classical/romantic music like Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Liszt, and Scriabin" ...what kind of music are you sight reading? Those composers or other material? Do you use practice patterns, drills?

    – Michael Curtis
    4 hours ago
















3












3








3








I have identified three main problems holding back my piano sight-reading, and this is the second biggest.



I can work out fingerings by trial and error, but some very experienced pianists just devise them on the fly without much thought. How can I get better at that?



I mostly play classical/romantic music like Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Liszt, and Scriabin, as well as transcriptions of modern songs and movie themes.










share|improve this question
















I have identified three main problems holding back my piano sight-reading, and this is the second biggest.



I can work out fingerings by trial and error, but some very experienced pianists just devise them on the fly without much thought. How can I get better at that?



I mostly play classical/romantic music like Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Liszt, and Scriabin, as well as transcriptions of modern songs and movie themes.







piano fingering sight-reading






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 9 hours ago







temporary_user_name

















asked 9 hours ago









temporary_user_nametemporary_user_name

86141224




86141224








  • 1





    "I mostly play classical/romantic music like Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Liszt, and Scriabin" ...what kind of music are you sight reading? Those composers or other material? Do you use practice patterns, drills?

    – Michael Curtis
    4 hours ago
















  • 1





    "I mostly play classical/romantic music like Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Liszt, and Scriabin" ...what kind of music are you sight reading? Those composers or other material? Do you use practice patterns, drills?

    – Michael Curtis
    4 hours ago










1




1





"I mostly play classical/romantic music like Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Liszt, and Scriabin" ...what kind of music are you sight reading? Those composers or other material? Do you use practice patterns, drills?

– Michael Curtis
4 hours ago







"I mostly play classical/romantic music like Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Liszt, and Scriabin" ...what kind of music are you sight reading? Those composers or other material? Do you use practice patterns, drills?

– Michael Curtis
4 hours ago












3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















8














Horowitz:




I dream fingerings.




I heard this Horowitz quote from one of my teachers at university. If it isn't genuine, it may as well be.



Anderszewski:




I have to find my fingerings, and I have to write them in the score –
this is actually one of the most satisfying aspects of my work at the
piano. And to think that some pianists leave this to chance or to the
inspiration of the moment... There's nothing worse than a fingering
that comes out of laziness. Fingerings have their beauty, for me, they
are the choreography of the dance at the keyboard: and to dance, one
has to learn the steps.




Obviously, the greater your facility and experience, the greater your chance of improvising an effective fingering. However, I don't believe trying to improvise fingerings is an effective means of winning greater facility and experience. Instead I would be patient, and continue to be methodical in devising fingerings. The more passages you carefully finger, the greater the chance that passages you encounter in the future will be similar to something you can already do.



Intuition depends somewhat on unquantifiable native ability, but also very greatly on experience. If your intuition is failing you, then you need to develop it by generating experience.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1





    Needless to say, sight-reading fingering is a thing, too :) I mean, you need a reasonable -- not optimal -- fingering when sight-reading, but you have to have this ability IMHO, as sight-reading is an important ability.

    – yo'
    4 hours ago



















5














Well there are a few things you can do to address this.



I know its obvious but practise your scales and arpeggios. A lot of what you will sight read will include strings of consecutive notes from scales or arpeggiated chords. If you have practised these you will be surprised how quickly you "fall into" the correct fingering when you encounter those sorts of passages.



Also the more you play the more you will become familiar with the "normal" ways of playing certain passages. It seems a bit surprising at first (although less so if you think about it) but there is a lot of repetition in music between pieces. Apart from scale passages - which are all over the place - there are common chord progressions and other shapes for example the Alberti bass (look it up if you don't know what it is). These things appear again and again and after a while you will get so used to them you will, as with the scales, find yourself just using the correct fingering without thinking too much about it.



The previous paragraph can also be applied in other areas. Take the ornaments and embellishments in baroque music (Bach for example). You should find that having managed to work out how to play all the turns and trills in one thing (one of the Bach Partitas perhaps) you find similar embellishments in many other pieces and they will present less of a problem.



And, of course, just play. The more you do it the more familiar it becomes. The more you do it the more familiar it becomes. You can do this. Go for it.






share|improve this answer































    0














    If you only notate the thumb you can quickly arrive to improvise the rest of the notes' fingerings - it won’t matter a lot what other fingers you use (especially in triads and scales).



    You will have more problems with creating fingerings for chromatic passages and motives turning around a note.






    share|improve this answer


























    • @Dekkadeci: thanks for editing!

      – Albrecht Hügli
      1 hour ago











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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    8














    Horowitz:




    I dream fingerings.




    I heard this Horowitz quote from one of my teachers at university. If it isn't genuine, it may as well be.



    Anderszewski:




    I have to find my fingerings, and I have to write them in the score –
    this is actually one of the most satisfying aspects of my work at the
    piano. And to think that some pianists leave this to chance or to the
    inspiration of the moment... There's nothing worse than a fingering
    that comes out of laziness. Fingerings have their beauty, for me, they
    are the choreography of the dance at the keyboard: and to dance, one
    has to learn the steps.




    Obviously, the greater your facility and experience, the greater your chance of improvising an effective fingering. However, I don't believe trying to improvise fingerings is an effective means of winning greater facility and experience. Instead I would be patient, and continue to be methodical in devising fingerings. The more passages you carefully finger, the greater the chance that passages you encounter in the future will be similar to something you can already do.



    Intuition depends somewhat on unquantifiable native ability, but also very greatly on experience. If your intuition is failing you, then you need to develop it by generating experience.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      Needless to say, sight-reading fingering is a thing, too :) I mean, you need a reasonable -- not optimal -- fingering when sight-reading, but you have to have this ability IMHO, as sight-reading is an important ability.

      – yo'
      4 hours ago
















    8














    Horowitz:




    I dream fingerings.




    I heard this Horowitz quote from one of my teachers at university. If it isn't genuine, it may as well be.



    Anderszewski:




    I have to find my fingerings, and I have to write them in the score –
    this is actually one of the most satisfying aspects of my work at the
    piano. And to think that some pianists leave this to chance or to the
    inspiration of the moment... There's nothing worse than a fingering
    that comes out of laziness. Fingerings have their beauty, for me, they
    are the choreography of the dance at the keyboard: and to dance, one
    has to learn the steps.




    Obviously, the greater your facility and experience, the greater your chance of improvising an effective fingering. However, I don't believe trying to improvise fingerings is an effective means of winning greater facility and experience. Instead I would be patient, and continue to be methodical in devising fingerings. The more passages you carefully finger, the greater the chance that passages you encounter in the future will be similar to something you can already do.



    Intuition depends somewhat on unquantifiable native ability, but also very greatly on experience. If your intuition is failing you, then you need to develop it by generating experience.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      Needless to say, sight-reading fingering is a thing, too :) I mean, you need a reasonable -- not optimal -- fingering when sight-reading, but you have to have this ability IMHO, as sight-reading is an important ability.

      – yo'
      4 hours ago














    8












    8








    8







    Horowitz:




    I dream fingerings.




    I heard this Horowitz quote from one of my teachers at university. If it isn't genuine, it may as well be.



    Anderszewski:




    I have to find my fingerings, and I have to write them in the score –
    this is actually one of the most satisfying aspects of my work at the
    piano. And to think that some pianists leave this to chance or to the
    inspiration of the moment... There's nothing worse than a fingering
    that comes out of laziness. Fingerings have their beauty, for me, they
    are the choreography of the dance at the keyboard: and to dance, one
    has to learn the steps.




    Obviously, the greater your facility and experience, the greater your chance of improvising an effective fingering. However, I don't believe trying to improvise fingerings is an effective means of winning greater facility and experience. Instead I would be patient, and continue to be methodical in devising fingerings. The more passages you carefully finger, the greater the chance that passages you encounter in the future will be similar to something you can already do.



    Intuition depends somewhat on unquantifiable native ability, but also very greatly on experience. If your intuition is failing you, then you need to develop it by generating experience.






    share|improve this answer













    Horowitz:




    I dream fingerings.




    I heard this Horowitz quote from one of my teachers at university. If it isn't genuine, it may as well be.



    Anderszewski:




    I have to find my fingerings, and I have to write them in the score –
    this is actually one of the most satisfying aspects of my work at the
    piano. And to think that some pianists leave this to chance or to the
    inspiration of the moment... There's nothing worse than a fingering
    that comes out of laziness. Fingerings have their beauty, for me, they
    are the choreography of the dance at the keyboard: and to dance, one
    has to learn the steps.




    Obviously, the greater your facility and experience, the greater your chance of improvising an effective fingering. However, I don't believe trying to improvise fingerings is an effective means of winning greater facility and experience. Instead I would be patient, and continue to be methodical in devising fingerings. The more passages you carefully finger, the greater the chance that passages you encounter in the future will be similar to something you can already do.



    Intuition depends somewhat on unquantifiable native ability, but also very greatly on experience. If your intuition is failing you, then you need to develop it by generating experience.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 9 hours ago









    repletereplete

    2,254515




    2,254515








    • 1





      Needless to say, sight-reading fingering is a thing, too :) I mean, you need a reasonable -- not optimal -- fingering when sight-reading, but you have to have this ability IMHO, as sight-reading is an important ability.

      – yo'
      4 hours ago














    • 1





      Needless to say, sight-reading fingering is a thing, too :) I mean, you need a reasonable -- not optimal -- fingering when sight-reading, but you have to have this ability IMHO, as sight-reading is an important ability.

      – yo'
      4 hours ago








    1




    1





    Needless to say, sight-reading fingering is a thing, too :) I mean, you need a reasonable -- not optimal -- fingering when sight-reading, but you have to have this ability IMHO, as sight-reading is an important ability.

    – yo'
    4 hours ago





    Needless to say, sight-reading fingering is a thing, too :) I mean, you need a reasonable -- not optimal -- fingering when sight-reading, but you have to have this ability IMHO, as sight-reading is an important ability.

    – yo'
    4 hours ago











    5














    Well there are a few things you can do to address this.



    I know its obvious but practise your scales and arpeggios. A lot of what you will sight read will include strings of consecutive notes from scales or arpeggiated chords. If you have practised these you will be surprised how quickly you "fall into" the correct fingering when you encounter those sorts of passages.



    Also the more you play the more you will become familiar with the "normal" ways of playing certain passages. It seems a bit surprising at first (although less so if you think about it) but there is a lot of repetition in music between pieces. Apart from scale passages - which are all over the place - there are common chord progressions and other shapes for example the Alberti bass (look it up if you don't know what it is). These things appear again and again and after a while you will get so used to them you will, as with the scales, find yourself just using the correct fingering without thinking too much about it.



    The previous paragraph can also be applied in other areas. Take the ornaments and embellishments in baroque music (Bach for example). You should find that having managed to work out how to play all the turns and trills in one thing (one of the Bach Partitas perhaps) you find similar embellishments in many other pieces and they will present less of a problem.



    And, of course, just play. The more you do it the more familiar it becomes. The more you do it the more familiar it becomes. You can do this. Go for it.






    share|improve this answer




























      5














      Well there are a few things you can do to address this.



      I know its obvious but practise your scales and arpeggios. A lot of what you will sight read will include strings of consecutive notes from scales or arpeggiated chords. If you have practised these you will be surprised how quickly you "fall into" the correct fingering when you encounter those sorts of passages.



      Also the more you play the more you will become familiar with the "normal" ways of playing certain passages. It seems a bit surprising at first (although less so if you think about it) but there is a lot of repetition in music between pieces. Apart from scale passages - which are all over the place - there are common chord progressions and other shapes for example the Alberti bass (look it up if you don't know what it is). These things appear again and again and after a while you will get so used to them you will, as with the scales, find yourself just using the correct fingering without thinking too much about it.



      The previous paragraph can also be applied in other areas. Take the ornaments and embellishments in baroque music (Bach for example). You should find that having managed to work out how to play all the turns and trills in one thing (one of the Bach Partitas perhaps) you find similar embellishments in many other pieces and they will present less of a problem.



      And, of course, just play. The more you do it the more familiar it becomes. The more you do it the more familiar it becomes. You can do this. Go for it.






      share|improve this answer


























        5












        5








        5







        Well there are a few things you can do to address this.



        I know its obvious but practise your scales and arpeggios. A lot of what you will sight read will include strings of consecutive notes from scales or arpeggiated chords. If you have practised these you will be surprised how quickly you "fall into" the correct fingering when you encounter those sorts of passages.



        Also the more you play the more you will become familiar with the "normal" ways of playing certain passages. It seems a bit surprising at first (although less so if you think about it) but there is a lot of repetition in music between pieces. Apart from scale passages - which are all over the place - there are common chord progressions and other shapes for example the Alberti bass (look it up if you don't know what it is). These things appear again and again and after a while you will get so used to them you will, as with the scales, find yourself just using the correct fingering without thinking too much about it.



        The previous paragraph can also be applied in other areas. Take the ornaments and embellishments in baroque music (Bach for example). You should find that having managed to work out how to play all the turns and trills in one thing (one of the Bach Partitas perhaps) you find similar embellishments in many other pieces and they will present less of a problem.



        And, of course, just play. The more you do it the more familiar it becomes. The more you do it the more familiar it becomes. You can do this. Go for it.






        share|improve this answer













        Well there are a few things you can do to address this.



        I know its obvious but practise your scales and arpeggios. A lot of what you will sight read will include strings of consecutive notes from scales or arpeggiated chords. If you have practised these you will be surprised how quickly you "fall into" the correct fingering when you encounter those sorts of passages.



        Also the more you play the more you will become familiar with the "normal" ways of playing certain passages. It seems a bit surprising at first (although less so if you think about it) but there is a lot of repetition in music between pieces. Apart from scale passages - which are all over the place - there are common chord progressions and other shapes for example the Alberti bass (look it up if you don't know what it is). These things appear again and again and after a while you will get so used to them you will, as with the scales, find yourself just using the correct fingering without thinking too much about it.



        The previous paragraph can also be applied in other areas. Take the ornaments and embellishments in baroque music (Bach for example). You should find that having managed to work out how to play all the turns and trills in one thing (one of the Bach Partitas perhaps) you find similar embellishments in many other pieces and they will present less of a problem.



        And, of course, just play. The more you do it the more familiar it becomes. The more you do it the more familiar it becomes. You can do this. Go for it.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 9 hours ago









        JimMJimM

        2,691710




        2,691710























            0














            If you only notate the thumb you can quickly arrive to improvise the rest of the notes' fingerings - it won’t matter a lot what other fingers you use (especially in triads and scales).



            You will have more problems with creating fingerings for chromatic passages and motives turning around a note.






            share|improve this answer


























            • @Dekkadeci: thanks for editing!

              – Albrecht Hügli
              1 hour ago
















            0














            If you only notate the thumb you can quickly arrive to improvise the rest of the notes' fingerings - it won’t matter a lot what other fingers you use (especially in triads and scales).



            You will have more problems with creating fingerings for chromatic passages and motives turning around a note.






            share|improve this answer


























            • @Dekkadeci: thanks for editing!

              – Albrecht Hügli
              1 hour ago














            0












            0








            0







            If you only notate the thumb you can quickly arrive to improvise the rest of the notes' fingerings - it won’t matter a lot what other fingers you use (especially in triads and scales).



            You will have more problems with creating fingerings for chromatic passages and motives turning around a note.






            share|improve this answer















            If you only notate the thumb you can quickly arrive to improvise the rest of the notes' fingerings - it won’t matter a lot what other fingers you use (especially in triads and scales).



            You will have more problems with creating fingerings for chromatic passages and motives turning around a note.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 1 hour ago









            Dekkadeci

            5,29121420




            5,29121420










            answered 1 hour ago









            Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli

            2,944220




            2,944220













            • @Dekkadeci: thanks for editing!

              – Albrecht Hügli
              1 hour ago



















            • @Dekkadeci: thanks for editing!

              – Albrecht Hügli
              1 hour ago

















            @Dekkadeci: thanks for editing!

            – Albrecht Hügli
            1 hour ago





            @Dekkadeci: thanks for editing!

            – Albrecht Hügli
            1 hour ago


















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