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Can my data be white noise if the mean >0?


What is a white noise process?Detecting outliers in a time-seriesTime series regression - ML estimationPredictions of a monthly temperature time series: adding noise to the predicted valuesIs there autocorrelation in volatile series?Distinguishing diffusion from white noiseIs an auto-correlation plot suitable for determining at what point time series data has become random, and how does one interpret the plot?Cross correlation influenced by self auto correlationCan a time series model be adequate and still have a few lags sticking out?How do I treat a seasonal timeseries to get a white noise autocorrelation plot?Can a time series model be improved when the residuals are white noise?Problematic ACF Graph in ARIMA modelling






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}







2












$begingroup$


According to the auto-correlation method, my time-series is white noise (i.e. 95% of ACF within ±2/√T), yet the data are counts and thus the mean >0.



Are these two facts incompatible?



I'm using the fpp package in R. Here are my data:



library(dplyr)
library(fpp)

rawdata <- c(414,334,439,385,341,338,365,330,403,321,352,339,270,410,372,332,368,377,392,452,410,411,332,329,422,373,457,406,395,510,412,395,472,429,436,342,427,358,372,393,465,422,481,396,374,393,375,366,313,384,294,311)

#and the plot code:

rawdata%>% ts(frequency=13) %>%
ggAcf()









share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$



migrated from stackoverflow.com 6 hours ago


This question came from our site for professional and enthusiast programmers.














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    To help others answer your question, it's helpful to list the minimal set of packages needed to use the code in your example (I think that's dplyr, ts, and forecast).
    $endgroup$
    – bschneidr
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I agree with Oliver. I think though that the answer you'll ultimately get is that the two facts you mention aren't incompatible, if I understand your question correctly. The mean of the time series is non-zero, but deviations around the mean are zero on average.
    $endgroup$
    – bschneidr
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    ben, aren't the average of deviations around the mean always 0?
    $endgroup$
    – deethreenovice
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    sorry dont know where i got ben from, bschneider i mean!
    $endgroup$
    – deethreenovice
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    what is the frequency of your 52 observations ?
    $endgroup$
    – IrishStat
    6 hours ago


















2












$begingroup$


According to the auto-correlation method, my time-series is white noise (i.e. 95% of ACF within ±2/√T), yet the data are counts and thus the mean >0.



Are these two facts incompatible?



I'm using the fpp package in R. Here are my data:



library(dplyr)
library(fpp)

rawdata <- c(414,334,439,385,341,338,365,330,403,321,352,339,270,410,372,332,368,377,392,452,410,411,332,329,422,373,457,406,395,510,412,395,472,429,436,342,427,358,372,393,465,422,481,396,374,393,375,366,313,384,294,311)

#and the plot code:

rawdata%>% ts(frequency=13) %>%
ggAcf()









share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$



migrated from stackoverflow.com 6 hours ago


This question came from our site for professional and enthusiast programmers.














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    To help others answer your question, it's helpful to list the minimal set of packages needed to use the code in your example (I think that's dplyr, ts, and forecast).
    $endgroup$
    – bschneidr
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I agree with Oliver. I think though that the answer you'll ultimately get is that the two facts you mention aren't incompatible, if I understand your question correctly. The mean of the time series is non-zero, but deviations around the mean are zero on average.
    $endgroup$
    – bschneidr
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    ben, aren't the average of deviations around the mean always 0?
    $endgroup$
    – deethreenovice
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    sorry dont know where i got ben from, bschneider i mean!
    $endgroup$
    – deethreenovice
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    what is the frequency of your 52 observations ?
    $endgroup$
    – IrishStat
    6 hours ago














2












2








2





$begingroup$


According to the auto-correlation method, my time-series is white noise (i.e. 95% of ACF within ±2/√T), yet the data are counts and thus the mean >0.



Are these two facts incompatible?



I'm using the fpp package in R. Here are my data:



library(dplyr)
library(fpp)

rawdata <- c(414,334,439,385,341,338,365,330,403,321,352,339,270,410,372,332,368,377,392,452,410,411,332,329,422,373,457,406,395,510,412,395,472,429,436,342,427,358,372,393,465,422,481,396,374,393,375,366,313,384,294,311)

#and the plot code:

rawdata%>% ts(frequency=13) %>%
ggAcf()









share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




According to the auto-correlation method, my time-series is white noise (i.e. 95% of ACF within ±2/√T), yet the data are counts and thus the mean >0.



Are these two facts incompatible?



I'm using the fpp package in R. Here are my data:



library(dplyr)
library(fpp)

rawdata <- c(414,334,439,385,341,338,365,330,403,321,352,339,270,410,372,332,368,377,392,452,410,411,332,329,422,373,457,406,395,510,412,395,472,429,436,342,427,358,372,393,465,422,481,396,374,393,375,366,313,384,294,311)

#and the plot code:

rawdata%>% ts(frequency=13) %>%
ggAcf()






r time-series forecasting






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 6 hours ago







deethreenovice

















asked 7 hours ago









deethreenovicedeethreenovice

112




112




migrated from stackoverflow.com 6 hours ago


This question came from our site for professional and enthusiast programmers.









migrated from stackoverflow.com 6 hours ago


This question came from our site for professional and enthusiast programmers.










  • 1




    $begingroup$
    To help others answer your question, it's helpful to list the minimal set of packages needed to use the code in your example (I think that's dplyr, ts, and forecast).
    $endgroup$
    – bschneidr
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I agree with Oliver. I think though that the answer you'll ultimately get is that the two facts you mention aren't incompatible, if I understand your question correctly. The mean of the time series is non-zero, but deviations around the mean are zero on average.
    $endgroup$
    – bschneidr
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    ben, aren't the average of deviations around the mean always 0?
    $endgroup$
    – deethreenovice
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    sorry dont know where i got ben from, bschneider i mean!
    $endgroup$
    – deethreenovice
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    what is the frequency of your 52 observations ?
    $endgroup$
    – IrishStat
    6 hours ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    To help others answer your question, it's helpful to list the minimal set of packages needed to use the code in your example (I think that's dplyr, ts, and forecast).
    $endgroup$
    – bschneidr
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I agree with Oliver. I think though that the answer you'll ultimately get is that the two facts you mention aren't incompatible, if I understand your question correctly. The mean of the time series is non-zero, but deviations around the mean are zero on average.
    $endgroup$
    – bschneidr
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    ben, aren't the average of deviations around the mean always 0?
    $endgroup$
    – deethreenovice
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    sorry dont know where i got ben from, bschneider i mean!
    $endgroup$
    – deethreenovice
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    what is the frequency of your 52 observations ?
    $endgroup$
    – IrishStat
    6 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
To help others answer your question, it's helpful to list the minimal set of packages needed to use the code in your example (I think that's dplyr, ts, and forecast).
$endgroup$
– bschneidr
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
To help others answer your question, it's helpful to list the minimal set of packages needed to use the code in your example (I think that's dplyr, ts, and forecast).
$endgroup$
– bschneidr
7 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
I agree with Oliver. I think though that the answer you'll ultimately get is that the two facts you mention aren't incompatible, if I understand your question correctly. The mean of the time series is non-zero, but deviations around the mean are zero on average.
$endgroup$
– bschneidr
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
I agree with Oliver. I think though that the answer you'll ultimately get is that the two facts you mention aren't incompatible, if I understand your question correctly. The mean of the time series is non-zero, but deviations around the mean are zero on average.
$endgroup$
– bschneidr
7 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
ben, aren't the average of deviations around the mean always 0?
$endgroup$
– deethreenovice
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
ben, aren't the average of deviations around the mean always 0?
$endgroup$
– deethreenovice
7 hours ago












$begingroup$
sorry dont know where i got ben from, bschneider i mean!
$endgroup$
– deethreenovice
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
sorry dont know where i got ben from, bschneider i mean!
$endgroup$
– deethreenovice
6 hours ago












$begingroup$
what is the frequency of your 52 observations ?
$endgroup$
– IrishStat
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
what is the frequency of your 52 observations ?
$endgroup$
– IrishStat
6 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

It's almost pointless to talk about white noise in relation to such short time series. Think of this: you have to establish spectral uniformity of the series. The fidelity and bandwidth of spectral decomposition is so low that you can't reliably claim much on this series in terms of whiteness of the noise, in my opinion.



On the second point, the mean being not zero, the answer could be YES to a reformulated question: can the noise in my series be white if the mean of the series is greater than zero? If you have series $x_t=c+varepsilon_t$, where $c >0$ is a constant, then $E[x_t]>0$ even when $varepsilon_t$ is white noise. If you remove the bias in your series, and they become zero mean and colorless, thwn why not call them white noise with bias?






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    White noise is defined as intendent with mean equal to zero, so with non-zero mean it is obviously inconsistent with the definition. Time-series can be uncorrelated and have any mean, lack of correlation does not imply anything about the mean.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$





















      1












      $begingroup$

      Your question might have been entitled in the reverse "is there a useful model for my data or is it without significant predictable structure other than the mean "



      The distribution of the observed series IS OF NO CONCERN . The distribution of the residuals from a useful model IS OF CONCERN as that is where all the assumptions reside (are placed !).



      Your original data is far from white noise with an Actual/Fit and Forecast graph hereenter image description here showing strong/systematic impact for a few periods of the year and a very significant seasonal auto-regressive structure and a significant level shift down at period 43(44) (FOLLOW THE BLUE LINE IN THE FORECAST REGION ) .



      The forecasts are a working image of the model ... enter image description here



      The model is here enter image description here and in more detail here enter image description here



      The residuals from the model enter image description here have the following ACF enter image description here suggesting "whiteness" i.e. no anomalies , no auto-correlation in the residuals.



      Finally the Actuals/cleansed plot is informative as to the latent identified deterministic structure enter image description here



      Finally your statement about the acf of the original series suggesting "whiteness" is due to the downwards bias introduced by not treating the pulses and the level shift. See Detecting outliers in a time-series for more on this. Additionally models need to detect anomalies since if untreated they inflate the variance of the errors causing incorrect acceptance of the hypothesis of randomness. Prof. J.K.Ord has referred to this as "the Alice in wonderland effect". The problem is that you can't catch an outlier without a model (at least a mild one) for your data. Else how would you know that a point violated that model? In fact, the process of growing understanding and finding and examining outliers must be iterative. This isn't a new thought. Bacon, writing in Novum Organum about 400 years ago said: "Errors of Nature, Sports and Monsters correct the understanding in regard to ordinary things, and reveal general forms. For whoever knows the ways of Nature will more easily notice her deviations; and, on the other hand, whoever knows her deviations will more accurately describe her ways."






      share|cite|improve this answer











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        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes








        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        2












        $begingroup$

        It's almost pointless to talk about white noise in relation to such short time series. Think of this: you have to establish spectral uniformity of the series. The fidelity and bandwidth of spectral decomposition is so low that you can't reliably claim much on this series in terms of whiteness of the noise, in my opinion.



        On the second point, the mean being not zero, the answer could be YES to a reformulated question: can the noise in my series be white if the mean of the series is greater than zero? If you have series $x_t=c+varepsilon_t$, where $c >0$ is a constant, then $E[x_t]>0$ even when $varepsilon_t$ is white noise. If you remove the bias in your series, and they become zero mean and colorless, thwn why not call them white noise with bias?






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$


















          2












          $begingroup$

          It's almost pointless to talk about white noise in relation to such short time series. Think of this: you have to establish spectral uniformity of the series. The fidelity and bandwidth of spectral decomposition is so low that you can't reliably claim much on this series in terms of whiteness of the noise, in my opinion.



          On the second point, the mean being not zero, the answer could be YES to a reformulated question: can the noise in my series be white if the mean of the series is greater than zero? If you have series $x_t=c+varepsilon_t$, where $c >0$ is a constant, then $E[x_t]>0$ even when $varepsilon_t$ is white noise. If you remove the bias in your series, and they become zero mean and colorless, thwn why not call them white noise with bias?






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$
















            2












            2








            2





            $begingroup$

            It's almost pointless to talk about white noise in relation to such short time series. Think of this: you have to establish spectral uniformity of the series. The fidelity and bandwidth of spectral decomposition is so low that you can't reliably claim much on this series in terms of whiteness of the noise, in my opinion.



            On the second point, the mean being not zero, the answer could be YES to a reformulated question: can the noise in my series be white if the mean of the series is greater than zero? If you have series $x_t=c+varepsilon_t$, where $c >0$ is a constant, then $E[x_t]>0$ even when $varepsilon_t$ is white noise. If you remove the bias in your series, and they become zero mean and colorless, thwn why not call them white noise with bias?






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            It's almost pointless to talk about white noise in relation to such short time series. Think of this: you have to establish spectral uniformity of the series. The fidelity and bandwidth of spectral decomposition is so low that you can't reliably claim much on this series in terms of whiteness of the noise, in my opinion.



            On the second point, the mean being not zero, the answer could be YES to a reformulated question: can the noise in my series be white if the mean of the series is greater than zero? If you have series $x_t=c+varepsilon_t$, where $c >0$ is a constant, then $E[x_t]>0$ even when $varepsilon_t$ is white noise. If you remove the bias in your series, and they become zero mean and colorless, thwn why not call them white noise with bias?







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited 3 hours ago

























            answered 3 hours ago









            AksakalAksakal

            39.6k452120




            39.6k452120

























                1












                $begingroup$

                White noise is defined as intendent with mean equal to zero, so with non-zero mean it is obviously inconsistent with the definition. Time-series can be uncorrelated and have any mean, lack of correlation does not imply anything about the mean.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$


















                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  White noise is defined as intendent with mean equal to zero, so with non-zero mean it is obviously inconsistent with the definition. Time-series can be uncorrelated and have any mean, lack of correlation does not imply anything about the mean.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$
















                    1












                    1








                    1





                    $begingroup$

                    White noise is defined as intendent with mean equal to zero, so with non-zero mean it is obviously inconsistent with the definition. Time-series can be uncorrelated and have any mean, lack of correlation does not imply anything about the mean.






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    White noise is defined as intendent with mean equal to zero, so with non-zero mean it is obviously inconsistent with the definition. Time-series can be uncorrelated and have any mean, lack of correlation does not imply anything about the mean.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered 5 hours ago









                    TimTim

                    60.9k9135230




                    60.9k9135230























                        1












                        $begingroup$

                        Your question might have been entitled in the reverse "is there a useful model for my data or is it without significant predictable structure other than the mean "



                        The distribution of the observed series IS OF NO CONCERN . The distribution of the residuals from a useful model IS OF CONCERN as that is where all the assumptions reside (are placed !).



                        Your original data is far from white noise with an Actual/Fit and Forecast graph hereenter image description here showing strong/systematic impact for a few periods of the year and a very significant seasonal auto-regressive structure and a significant level shift down at period 43(44) (FOLLOW THE BLUE LINE IN THE FORECAST REGION ) .



                        The forecasts are a working image of the model ... enter image description here



                        The model is here enter image description here and in more detail here enter image description here



                        The residuals from the model enter image description here have the following ACF enter image description here suggesting "whiteness" i.e. no anomalies , no auto-correlation in the residuals.



                        Finally the Actuals/cleansed plot is informative as to the latent identified deterministic structure enter image description here



                        Finally your statement about the acf of the original series suggesting "whiteness" is due to the downwards bias introduced by not treating the pulses and the level shift. See Detecting outliers in a time-series for more on this. Additionally models need to detect anomalies since if untreated they inflate the variance of the errors causing incorrect acceptance of the hypothesis of randomness. Prof. J.K.Ord has referred to this as "the Alice in wonderland effect". The problem is that you can't catch an outlier without a model (at least a mild one) for your data. Else how would you know that a point violated that model? In fact, the process of growing understanding and finding and examining outliers must be iterative. This isn't a new thought. Bacon, writing in Novum Organum about 400 years ago said: "Errors of Nature, Sports and Monsters correct the understanding in regard to ordinary things, and reveal general forms. For whoever knows the ways of Nature will more easily notice her deviations; and, on the other hand, whoever knows her deviations will more accurately describe her ways."






                        share|cite|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$


















                          1












                          $begingroup$

                          Your question might have been entitled in the reverse "is there a useful model for my data or is it without significant predictable structure other than the mean "



                          The distribution of the observed series IS OF NO CONCERN . The distribution of the residuals from a useful model IS OF CONCERN as that is where all the assumptions reside (are placed !).



                          Your original data is far from white noise with an Actual/Fit and Forecast graph hereenter image description here showing strong/systematic impact for a few periods of the year and a very significant seasonal auto-regressive structure and a significant level shift down at period 43(44) (FOLLOW THE BLUE LINE IN THE FORECAST REGION ) .



                          The forecasts are a working image of the model ... enter image description here



                          The model is here enter image description here and in more detail here enter image description here



                          The residuals from the model enter image description here have the following ACF enter image description here suggesting "whiteness" i.e. no anomalies , no auto-correlation in the residuals.



                          Finally the Actuals/cleansed plot is informative as to the latent identified deterministic structure enter image description here



                          Finally your statement about the acf of the original series suggesting "whiteness" is due to the downwards bias introduced by not treating the pulses and the level shift. See Detecting outliers in a time-series for more on this. Additionally models need to detect anomalies since if untreated they inflate the variance of the errors causing incorrect acceptance of the hypothesis of randomness. Prof. J.K.Ord has referred to this as "the Alice in wonderland effect". The problem is that you can't catch an outlier without a model (at least a mild one) for your data. Else how would you know that a point violated that model? In fact, the process of growing understanding and finding and examining outliers must be iterative. This isn't a new thought. Bacon, writing in Novum Organum about 400 years ago said: "Errors of Nature, Sports and Monsters correct the understanding in regard to ordinary things, and reveal general forms. For whoever knows the ways of Nature will more easily notice her deviations; and, on the other hand, whoever knows her deviations will more accurately describe her ways."






                          share|cite|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$
















                            1












                            1








                            1





                            $begingroup$

                            Your question might have been entitled in the reverse "is there a useful model for my data or is it without significant predictable structure other than the mean "



                            The distribution of the observed series IS OF NO CONCERN . The distribution of the residuals from a useful model IS OF CONCERN as that is where all the assumptions reside (are placed !).



                            Your original data is far from white noise with an Actual/Fit and Forecast graph hereenter image description here showing strong/systematic impact for a few periods of the year and a very significant seasonal auto-regressive structure and a significant level shift down at period 43(44) (FOLLOW THE BLUE LINE IN THE FORECAST REGION ) .



                            The forecasts are a working image of the model ... enter image description here



                            The model is here enter image description here and in more detail here enter image description here



                            The residuals from the model enter image description here have the following ACF enter image description here suggesting "whiteness" i.e. no anomalies , no auto-correlation in the residuals.



                            Finally the Actuals/cleansed plot is informative as to the latent identified deterministic structure enter image description here



                            Finally your statement about the acf of the original series suggesting "whiteness" is due to the downwards bias introduced by not treating the pulses and the level shift. See Detecting outliers in a time-series for more on this. Additionally models need to detect anomalies since if untreated they inflate the variance of the errors causing incorrect acceptance of the hypothesis of randomness. Prof. J.K.Ord has referred to this as "the Alice in wonderland effect". The problem is that you can't catch an outlier without a model (at least a mild one) for your data. Else how would you know that a point violated that model? In fact, the process of growing understanding and finding and examining outliers must be iterative. This isn't a new thought. Bacon, writing in Novum Organum about 400 years ago said: "Errors of Nature, Sports and Monsters correct the understanding in regard to ordinary things, and reveal general forms. For whoever knows the ways of Nature will more easily notice her deviations; and, on the other hand, whoever knows her deviations will more accurately describe her ways."






                            share|cite|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$



                            Your question might have been entitled in the reverse "is there a useful model for my data or is it without significant predictable structure other than the mean "



                            The distribution of the observed series IS OF NO CONCERN . The distribution of the residuals from a useful model IS OF CONCERN as that is where all the assumptions reside (are placed !).



                            Your original data is far from white noise with an Actual/Fit and Forecast graph hereenter image description here showing strong/systematic impact for a few periods of the year and a very significant seasonal auto-regressive structure and a significant level shift down at period 43(44) (FOLLOW THE BLUE LINE IN THE FORECAST REGION ) .



                            The forecasts are a working image of the model ... enter image description here



                            The model is here enter image description here and in more detail here enter image description here



                            The residuals from the model enter image description here have the following ACF enter image description here suggesting "whiteness" i.e. no anomalies , no auto-correlation in the residuals.



                            Finally the Actuals/cleansed plot is informative as to the latent identified deterministic structure enter image description here



                            Finally your statement about the acf of the original series suggesting "whiteness" is due to the downwards bias introduced by not treating the pulses and the level shift. See Detecting outliers in a time-series for more on this. Additionally models need to detect anomalies since if untreated they inflate the variance of the errors causing incorrect acceptance of the hypothesis of randomness. Prof. J.K.Ord has referred to this as "the Alice in wonderland effect". The problem is that you can't catch an outlier without a model (at least a mild one) for your data. Else how would you know that a point violated that model? In fact, the process of growing understanding and finding and examining outliers must be iterative. This isn't a new thought. Bacon, writing in Novum Organum about 400 years ago said: "Errors of Nature, Sports and Monsters correct the understanding in regard to ordinary things, and reveal general forms. For whoever knows the ways of Nature will more easily notice her deviations; and, on the other hand, whoever knows her deviations will more accurately describe her ways."







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                            edited 4 hours ago

























                            answered 6 hours ago









                            IrishStatIrishStat

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